Hobby Lobby issuing verbal notices

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crazy2medic
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Re: Hobby Lobby issuing verbal notices

#16

Post by crazy2medic » Wed Sep 25, 2019 2:55 pm

I was in the Hobby Lobby lake worth last sunday, open carrying as I always do, nobody noticed nobody cared!
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Re: Hobby Lobby issuing verbal notices

#17

Post by Charles L. Cotton » Wed Sep 25, 2019 3:35 pm

Grayling813 wrote:
Wed Sep 25, 2019 7:40 am
The guy who made the entry on Texas 30.06 commented below the entry. It sounds as if he actually received neither a oral notification of open nor concealed carry, as he said both the store manager and regional manager said they were “more comfortable “ with concealed carry. He also stated they said open carry is NOT prohibited in the store.
So I’m not really sure why he posted that he received verbal notification of .06 and .07 if he actually didn’t. :banghead:
This is the problem with reporting verbal notice. I appreciate what Russell has done with Texas3006.com; it's a great resource, However, I don't like the verbal notice feature for this and other reasons.

Chas.


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Re: Hobby Lobby issuing verbal notices

#18

Post by Grayling813 » Wed Sep 25, 2019 4:47 pm

Russell wrote:
Wed Sep 25, 2019 2:54 pm
It was a bad entry, it has been removed. I wish he would have put in the original entry comments that it was a side remark and not a request to cover up or leave so that we could have rejected it outright.

It happens sometimes.
Thanks! Wouldn’t want an entry on Texas 30.06 to be misconstrued as to be giving effective verbal notice. I’d rather there not be verbal notifications entries in the off chance a zealous prosecutor tried to use that as effective notice to everyone who uses the app.

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Re: Hobby Lobby issuing verbal notices

#19

Post by Oldgringo » Wed Sep 25, 2019 5:36 pm

:iagree:
Grayling813 wrote:
Wed Sep 25, 2019 4:47 pm
Russell wrote:
Wed Sep 25, 2019 2:54 pm
It was a bad entry, it has been removed. I wish he would have put in the original entry comments that it was a side remark and not a request to cover up or leave so that we could have rejected it outright.

It happens sometimes.
Thanks! Wouldn’t want an entry on Texas 30.06 to be misconstrued as to be giving effective verbal notice. I’d rather there not be verbal notifications entries in the off chance a zealous prosecutor tried to use that as effective notice to everyone who uses the app.
:iagree: A verbal notice to you, for whatever reason, is not a verbal notice to me

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Lena
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Re: Hobby Lobby issuing verbal notices

#20

Post by Lena » Wed Sep 25, 2019 5:41 pm

I just went by the HL in Greenville there are NO postings at either entrances at all of any kind.
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Re: Hobby Lobby issuing verbal notices

#21

Post by Texas_Blaze » Wed Sep 25, 2019 6:04 pm

I haven’t used Texas3006 in a long time I guess because I never knew that verbal notice is now being recorded/reported. That makes zero sense to me.


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Re: Hobby Lobby issuing verbal notices

#22

Post by Russell » Wed Sep 25, 2019 6:21 pm

Texas_Blaze wrote:
Wed Sep 25, 2019 6:04 pm
I haven’t used Texas3006 in a long time I guess because I never knew that verbal notice is now being recorded/reported. That makes zero sense to me.

The verbal notice feature is not meant to be taken as a notice for YOU of course.

It's a response to all of the big businesses that recently made the news for stating they were going to begin prohibiting open carry, however were not going to be posting signage.

It's meant as a heads up that if that particular location has been reported for verbal notification, it's likely that you will also receive a verbal notice if you carry/open carry there as well. You can then also make up your mind on if you want to spend your money there or not.

We (the Texas3006 team) came up with what we feel is a fairly good list of conditions for a verbal notice to be accepted. I may need to tweak how entries are handled in the moderation queue though so that clarification can be received from the entry owners when needed before they are approved.

Anyone can of course tweak their watch list and proximity alert notifications so that if they don't care about verbal notice entries they won't get emails or alerts about them :-)
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Re: Hobby Lobby issuing verbal notices

#23

Post by C-dub » Thu Sep 26, 2019 2:12 pm

Russell wrote:
Wed Sep 25, 2019 6:21 pm
It's meant as a heads up that if that particular location has been reported for verbal notification, it's likely that you will also receive a verbal notice if you carry/open carry there as well. You can then also make up your mind on if you want to spend your money there or not.
That's exactly how I've seen that feature.
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Re: Hobby Lobby issuing verbal notices

#24

Post by DynamicDan » Thu Sep 26, 2019 3:17 pm

I guess they want you to open carry until they don't.


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Re: Hobby Lobby issuing verbal notices

#25

Post by Russell » Tue Oct 01, 2019 2:19 pm

I may need to tweak how entries are handled in the moderation queue though so that clarification can be received from the entry owners when needed before they are approved.
This idea has been implemented. Future entries that are questionable (verbal especially) will no longer be approved until we've gotten positive feedback from an entry owner regarding exactly what occurred so that we can be sure it meets the requirements.

Sorry for the confusion with Hobby Lobby :tiphat:
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Re: Hobby Lobby issuing verbal notices

#26

Post by AJSully421 » Wed Oct 02, 2019 2:00 am

I agree on the whole oral notice thing... could be one stupid millennial employee who pops off without the company having a policy, and now it gets reported with this idea that it is “official company policy”.

Also, some homeless looking guy with a high point in a ripped and tattered Uncle Mike’s nylon holster might get oral notice from a manager where a guy in slacks and a polo with a clean cut and a nice 1911 in a quality holster would not be given notice. How can we account for that possibility?
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Re: Hobby Lobby issuing verbal notices

#27

Post by chasfm11 » Wed Oct 02, 2019 7:17 am

One of my main concerns with verbal notice is whether or not the "employee" issuing it has the power to do it.

For example, we have seen a number of situations where employees in fast food restaurants refused to serve police officers. In the following firestorm of backlash, the managers of the stores have apologized for the actions of their employees and in several cases fired those employees. I also believe that there are a growing number of people who feel empowered to act against those with whom they disagree and don't see to be bashful about doing so in public places. Given the attacks on NRA and MAGA hats, it is not a stretch of ones imagination to believe that an employee could take it upon themselves to state a gun policy to someone OC that was not consistent with the management approach.

Further, I would suggest that even those with stated policies against OC like Whataburger seem not to be interested in enforcing them across all of their stores. While I admit that they are anecdotal and not systematic, members of this forum report that they have OC in Whataburger stores without incident.

When I challenged the City of Lewisville over their fencing and wand setup at Western Days, I did not notify the paid security staff about my LTC because I was not going to play "he said, she said" about whether or not the security staff had the authority to issue a verbal notice. I am not going to risk a trespass charge for not leaving if I'm approached while OC in some store but will try to verify that the store person is a member of management or ask to speak to a manager.

Lastly, I believe that there are those who will use any means available to try to intimidate gun owners. If they can get away with posting false information on someplace like Texas3006, they will try. I appreciate what Russel has done with that application but it is open to the public and requires the same hyper vigilance to protect it that we should be exercising to protect ourselves. Threats come from all directions, even seemingly helpful ones.

I've been a sporadic OCer and will likely do it less now in places where I know that it might not be welcomed, at least for the next couple of months and barring some other incident. But I will not abandon doing it in places where I'm certain that I won't receive verbal notice. As for CC, concealed is concealed. No sign=no problem.
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Re: Hobby Lobby issuing verbal notices

#28

Post by longtooth » Wed Oct 02, 2019 7:51 am

flintknapper wrote:
Tue Sep 24, 2019 11:43 pm
SQLGeek wrote:
Tue Sep 24, 2019 9:52 pm
It was a good run folks. Shame to see we're on the downhill side.
Because we've allowed a large portion of the public to conclude: 'Guns are scary'.

As irrational as it is to think that law abiding, responsible citizens (armed) are somehow a threat...that's where we are folks.

The public doesn't know who we are (just ordinary citizens going about our business each day) because we hide our weapons.

So quite naturally the carrying of a weapon for self defense NEVER gets 'normalized'.

The guy with a ring in his nose, pierced ears and a big, honking tattoo of Satan on his neck..doesn't get a second look these days. We've all seen it a hundred times and the shock factor has long ago worn off. But let Mr./Mrs. average citizen open carry into Walmart anymore and someone is going to pee their pants. Sheeesh....!

When the gun toting public isn't willing to stand up and fight for what they believe in, call out the nonsense, then we get exactly what we deserve.
The very reason I OC all the time. Lesser reasons are heat in the summer, starched and ironed vest last over a month as opposed to one a week.
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Re: Hobby Lobby issuing verbal notices

#29

Post by oljames3 » Wed Oct 02, 2019 10:20 am

longtooth wrote:
Wed Oct 02, 2019 7:51 am
flintknapper wrote:
Tue Sep 24, 2019 11:43 pm
SQLGeek wrote:
Tue Sep 24, 2019 9:52 pm
It was a good run folks. Shame to see we're on the downhill side.
Because we've allowed a large portion of the public to conclude: 'Guns are scary'.

As irrational as it is to think that law abiding, responsible citizens (armed) are somehow a threat...that's where we are folks.

The public doesn't know who we are (just ordinary citizens going about our business each day) because we hide our weapons.

So quite naturally the carrying of a weapon for self defense NEVER gets 'normalized'.

The guy with a ring in his nose, pierced ears and a big, honking tattoo of Satan on his neck..doesn't get a second look these days. We've all seen it a hundred times and the shock factor has long ago worn off. But let Mr./Mrs. average citizen open carry into Walmart anymore and someone is going to pee their pants. Sheeesh....!

When the gun toting public isn't willing to stand up and fight for what they believe in, call out the nonsense, then we get exactly what we deserve.
The very reason I OC all the time. Lesser reasons are heat in the summer, starched and ironed vest last over a month as opposed to one a week.
:iagree:
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