Practicing an old CQB point-shooting drill again

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Charles L. Cotton
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Practicing an old CQB point-shooting drill again

#1

Post by Charles L. Cotton » Sun Mar 22, 2020 9:20 pm

I used to teach and practice a very simple but critically important CQB drill that I have ignored for a number of years. It is shot at 3 and 5 yards. As I said, it's very simple but mastering this skill can be a live-saver in a deadly close-quarters encounter.

At three yards using a timer, draw and fire one round (strong-hand only) at an IDPA target from a low point-shooting position. All rounds must hit in the 8" zero-down circle. By low point-shooting position, I mean the handgun is drawn, leveled at the target while held close to the body and fired. Once a student had mastered this part of the drill and is getting consistent times, I then have them shoot the same drill with concealment. Only after a student masters this skill with concealment and sub-2 second times, I add "retreat while engaging" to the drill.

As I said, I haven't practiced this in a number of years. To be honest, it seems too simple, but it is a skill that everyone should master. I of all people should not have gotten complacent about this critical skill.

Today, my times averaged between 0.83 and 0.85 seconds with almost all rounds hitting the target zone. This is without concealment. When I shot with a vest, my times averaged between 1.03 and 1.15 seconds. The lowest time I recall was 1.01 and the longest with a fouled draw was 1.42 seconds. (When you foul a draw, don't start over! Use it as a learning opportunity and continue the draw and fire.) These are pretty good times with good hits and I must admit I was surprised. That said, I know I can get the concealment draw under 1 second with dry practice at home and live fire at the range.

Surprisingly, my times at 5 yards were almost identical with at most another .05 seconds added and virtually the same accuracy. I didn't expect this at all, but this drill is really designed for 3 yards and closer. At five yards, one usually has time and distance to bring the handgun to a two-handed grip and engage with sights.

While decreasing one's draw-and-engage times while increasing accuracy is very important, this drill is only part of the "shoot your way out of trouble" skill. I tell all students to master this skill first, then we can talk about what comes next.

Chas.

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Re: Practicing an old CQB point-shooting drill again

#2

Post by Charles L. Cotton » Mon Mar 23, 2020 10:43 am

I decided to practice this drill yesterday because of recent security videos of CQB gunfights that I have watched. A key factor in surviving a surprise attack is having the self-control not to "draw on a drawn gun" but wait for an opportunity to draw when your attacker isn't looking. Things such as momentary inattention or a distraction can give you that opportunity. When it arrives, it may only last a very few seconds, so you better be able to draw and engage effectively. (There are tricks you can use to cause a distraction, but those typically give you a very short window of time to respond, so be ready.)

I know that instructors seem to feel compelled to name every drill they teach these days :lol: , so I'll call this the "Breakaway Drill." A student once described it as such and that's as good as any. Give it a try, but not with your ported handgun. That won't be fun.

Let us know your times and accuracy percentage. I suggest keeping a small notebook in your shooting bag to track your progress. Do this for all of your training, not just this drill. If you don't have a timer, then get one. You'll be amazed at how much stress that will add to your training and practice. It also allows you to track your progress with empirical evidence rather then merely your gut feeling how you did on a given day.

Please practice folks. Some people survive an attack and gunfight because of sheer luck. I've found luck to be quite unreliable.

Chas.

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Re: Practicing an old CQB point-shooting drill again

#3

Post by The Annoyed Man » Mon Mar 23, 2020 11:12 am

Charles,

You’ve been watching Correa's videos, I take it? Seems like he’s recently talked about not drawing on a drawn gun, and creating distractions.
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Re: Practicing an old CQB point-shooting drill again

#4

Post by Charles L. Cotton » Mon Mar 23, 2020 11:24 am

The Annoyed Man wrote:
Mon Mar 23, 2020 11:12 am
Charles,

You’ve been watching Correa's videos, I take it? Seems like he’s recently talked about not drawing on a drawn gun, and creating distractions.
Not really. I've watched only 2 or 3 none of which dealt with drawing on a drawn gun or creating distractions. Not drawing on a drawn gun has been the "rule" for much longer than Correa has been alive. It also has exceptions. Waiting for or creating distractions is something I've taught for 30 years.

Chas.


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Re: Practicing an old CQB point-shooting drill again

#5

Post by BHill » Mon Mar 23, 2020 11:33 am

Charles L. Cotton wrote:
Mon Mar 23, 2020 10:43 am

Please practice folks. Some people survive an attack and gunfight because of sheer luck. I've found luck to be quite unreliable.

Chas.


Chas, my observation is that the more people practice the luckier they get. Practice folks.
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Re: Practicing an old CQB point-shooting drill again

#6

Post by SQLGeek » Mon Mar 23, 2020 12:06 pm

Love the idea for the drill. Will definitely be trying this out. I really do need to get a shot timer.
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Re: Practicing an old CQB point-shooting drill again

#7

Post by Rafe » Mon Mar 23, 2020 12:51 pm

I've been trying to remember where I first heard this, but I can't. May have been an Nam era Recon Marine saying. A bad paraphrase: "Never engage in an ambush unless it's one you planned yourself." Other than "Don't stroll into the line of fire, stupid," it's just a different take on the OODA loop and action-reaction curve. If you're standing there flatfooted with your hands up and the bad guy has a Glock pointed at your chest, you're the one being ambushed. If you're going to deploy your weapon, you have to change things up in order to make it an "ambush" of your own planning. And nowadays it's possible and maybe likely that the bad guy is working with a second sleaze ball.

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Re: Practicing an old CQB point-shooting drill again

#8

Post by Paladin » Mon Mar 23, 2020 6:55 pm

Chas,

Is this the position you are referring to?

Image

or this?

Image
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Re: Practicing an old CQB point-shooting drill again

#9

Post by Charles L. Cotton » Tue Mar 24, 2020 3:14 pm

Paladin wrote:
Mon Mar 23, 2020 6:55 pm
Chas,

Is this the position you are referring to?

Image

or this?

Image
Much closer to the 2nd photo, but squared-off to the target.

Chas.

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Re: Practicing an old CQB point-shooting drill again

#10

Post by Paladin » Tue Mar 24, 2020 4:08 pm

Charles L. Cotton wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 3:14 pm
Paladin wrote:
Mon Mar 23, 2020 6:55 pm
Chas,

Is this the position you are referring to?

Image

or this?

Image
Much closer to the 2nd photo, but squared-off to the target.

Chas.
Sounds good. I'll let you know how it goes :txflag:
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Re: Practicing an old CQB point-shooting drill again

#11

Post by JustSomeOldGuy » Tue Mar 24, 2020 4:21 pm

Charles L. Cotton wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 3:14 pm
Paladin wrote:
Mon Mar 23, 2020 6:55 pm
Chas,

Is this the position you are referring to?

Image

or this?

Image
Much closer to the 2nd photo, but squared-off to the target.

Chas.
That looks like what I learned under the term "speed rock position" or "speed rock draw".....
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Re: Practicing an old CQB point-shooting drill again

#12

Post by srothstein » Tue Mar 24, 2020 6:21 pm

JustSomeOldGuy wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 4:21 pm
Charles L. Cotton wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 3:14 pm
Paladin wrote:
Mon Mar 23, 2020 6:55 pm
Chas,

Is this the position you are referring to?

Image

or this?

Image
Much closer to the 2nd photo, but squared-off to the target.

Chas.
That looks like what I learned under the term "speed rock position" or "speed rock draw".....
The second one was taught to cops (well SAPD taught it to me in the academy) for use when attacked while interviewing someone. You are already close to him to be able to get his ID or whatever and if you use the position in photo 1 it is easy for him to get the gun from you. The position in photo 2 helps protect you from the gun grab.

On a side note, when we carried revolvers, we were taught to roll the gun sideways to help keep the unburnt powder coming out of the cylindar gap from hitting your clothes. Whenw e switched to Glocks, they had to teach people to keep the pistol upright to keep the ejection port clear and working properly.
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Re: Practicing an old CQB point-shooting drill again

#13

Post by Paladin » Tue Mar 24, 2020 8:21 pm

JustSomeOldGuy wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 4:21 pm
Charles L. Cotton wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 3:14 pm
Paladin wrote:
Mon Mar 23, 2020 6:55 pm
Chas,

Is this the position you are referring to?

Image

or this?

Image
Much closer to the 2nd photo, but squared-off to the target.

Chas.
That looks like what I learned under the term "speed rock position" or "speed rock draw".....
The pictures are from Shooting to Live. The key point is the arm location (Picture #2 today called retention), but the body position in picture #2 looks remarkably like a "speed rock"

Picture #1 (Half-Hip) is useful for clearing buildings. I've seen it used in modern training with a 2-hand grip. It's accurate if you use the proper technique. Jim Cirillo explained it really well in one of his videos.
Last edited by Paladin on Tue Mar 24, 2020 8:47 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Practicing an old CQB point-shooting drill again

#14

Post by Paladin » Tue Mar 24, 2020 8:29 pm

I tried the drill at 3 yards and Chas I'm impressed!

Struggled to keep the shots on the silhouette at 3 yards and had to walk them into the target zone. I usually use the retention (aka Quarter-Hip Position) for distances of Zero-to-2 yards. Accuracy at 3 yards is gonna take me some practice.

I tried at 1 yard and still tended to need a second shot to walk my fire into the target zone. First shot speeds from concealment ranged from .73-to-1.52 sec outlier.

Guess I've got something to work on now :cheers2:
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