Pulled over ... while walking

Most CHL/LEO contacts are positive, how about yours? Bloopers are fun, but no names please, if it will cause a LEO problems!

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atxgun
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Pulled over ... while walking

#1

Post by atxgun »

So I figured I'd step away from the computer and TV and take a nice walk around the block in the crisp air. It was going to be a quick route, out the front of my apartment, circle around the immediate block and back up through the back entrance.

So I'm about half way down the side street and I see a car pulling up. I see it's a cop and I nod continuing on my way. Then I see him out of the corner of my eye start to veere around and knew he was coming back my way. I kept walking a couple more steps until he flashed his lights, I turn around while pulling my wallet and other hand out of my pockets so they were in clear view.

He walks up and I proceed to pull out my IDs. "Do you have any weapons on you?" "yessir, I'm chl" as I hand him my ids and wallet. He tosses them to the ground. "What are you carrying?" "Springfield XD .40 front pocket". I probably could have better communicated it was in my shoulder holster on my left side but I was a little nervous at this point just because it was the first time I was stopped while carrying and he seemed to have an attitude I was up to something walking around in the middle of the night. He fumbled around for a second trying to find it in the coats outer front pocket and then had me clarify.

Apparently he claims my neighborhood is a high gang, drug area which is why they were patrolling. That seriously surprised me as the folks in my complex seem normal enough and I never notice "thugs" out and about. (Hell if I did i wouldn't be walking around at 10:30 at night.

Of course by this time I'm disarmed and sitting on the curb handcuffed while he runs my stuff and his partner continues to question me. At one point I was asked "I can tell you've been smoking or drinking, I can smell it one you" ... What!? I think to myself. Now I had a beer with dinner but that had to have been a good hour hour and a half ago. And I certainly had not been smoking the reefer. "No, well I had a beer with dinner". Which I while I felt compelled to tell the truth I had this feeling of famous-last-words. "Oh yeah, why's your eye so red". Well my eye still isn't completely healed from that time I was attacked on halloween that I posted about and there's still some blood collected around the iris.

The cop running my stuff comes back out "So, you've ever been arrested?" "No." "Just a victim, eh?" I look at him a second thinking what? "Of robbery and domestic violence". (My apt had been robbed back in 2003 or so, and I wanted to laugh when I learned I'm on the record as being a victim of "domestic violence". ) "Yeah if you want to call it that"

At some point I was also grilled about why I was out walking around. "I just wanted to go for a walk..." and couldn't come up with anything better than that because really that's all there was to it.

I guess they didn't really suspect me of being intoxicated after all as I was given no sobriety test or breathalyzer. I guess the whole "I can smell it" thing is to try and get you to admit something.

At anyrate everything matched up with what they had on file and I was just a block away from where I live so they decided to cut me loose. Not before giving me a lecture about walking around and putting myself in dangerous situations. Hey I totally agree with all that, I just seriously did not make my area out to be as dangerous as they were acting.

He also gave me advice for how to act when encountered by an LEO while carrying. He said "The first thing to do is say you have a gun" I explained this was my first encounter and I've talked with others that had varying schools of thought and the one I subscribed to was I figured it would not be a good idea for the first words to come out of my mouth "I have a gun.".

He left my gun with mag out and slide locked back on the sidewalk next to my wallet and instructed me to not pick it back up until they pulled away.

I made it back home through my apparently dangerous neighborhood safely.

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Re: Pulled over ... while walking

#2

Post by Pinkycatcher »

So he had you openly (intentionally) carrying a handgun per his orders? Very odd, very odd indeed. I would have asked why he stopped me, and if I could leave, then if not, I woulda called a lawyer. I think it's pretty much a dumb stop you shouldn't have been disarmed or handcuffed for, or left with a gun exposed on the sidewalk unloaded in a "dangerous" neighborhood.

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atxgun
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Re: Pulled over ... while walking

#3

Post by atxgun »

I was thinking those same things. I guess I could have demanded a lawyer or what not but then I'd still not be half way through things being over.

At the same time he did say why I was being stopped "it's a drug area and they question everyone..."

As for leaving the gun on the ground for me to reload and have it known that I was carrying for any eyes watching, I thought they'd at least stick around with their lights until until my weapon was secured. Nope they just took off before I could even pick up my wallet.
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Re: Pulled over ... while walking

#4

Post by kalipsocs »

Wow....this post 9/11 mentality with some officers scares me deeply. Since when did walking at night become a crime no matter the area? Talk about illegal search and (well, somewhat...) seizure. Precisely as mentioned previously I would identify myself as a CHL holder and that I was carrying, but much past that it is "Why am I being stopped?", "Am I being detained?", "Am I free to go?" If arrested, "I want to speak with my lawyer." Sadly, some officers aren't as friendly as they want to appear. I wouldn't give them any information than obligated to as a CHL holder. but hey I could be wrong.

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Re: Pulled over ... while walking

#5

Post by atxgun »

I don't know that there was anything illegal about how I was treated. We all know the officers are allowed to disarm you. When I was cuffed he specifically said I was not under arrest, just being detained.

Aside from the general concept of the situation, to be fair they were as friendly as could be I suppose. It's not like I was slammed on the pavement or anything like that.

Time for another round of getting this out of my head so I can try and get some sleep.
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kalipsocs
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Re: Pulled over ... while walking

#6

Post by kalipsocs »

atxgun wrote:I don't know that there was anything illegal about how I was treated. We all know the officers are allowed to disarm you. When I was cuffed he specifically said I was not under arrest, just being detained.

Aside from the general concept of the situation, to be fair they were as friendly as could be I suppose. It's not like I was slammed on the pavement or anything like that.

Time for another round of getting this out of my head so I can try and get some sleep.
I am basing my assertions on the fact you were walking. Just because its a high crime area does not give him the right to pat you down and run a background check. Thats like being pulled over because you were driving in a high crime area and they search your car because of that! Like I said, we as CHL holders are obligated to disclose a little more, but you still have some constitutional rights there, particularly the 4th and 5th. It is unreasonable to detain and search you for walking down a street, and baiting you into self incrimination to having had a drink which if they really wanted to could turn into something (public intox is easy enough) . Nor do I need lectures on how I chose to live i.e. not walking somewhere because XYZ. I am a 20 something and have noticed time and time again that many officers don't treat me or my peers with much respect...we all seem to be guilty of something whether it be the case or not. Compliance is fine with disarming and identification, but I am of logic that officers are pushing some boundaries these days and need to remember that the Bill of Rights hasn't been completely shredded to pieces. That being said, respect is the name of the game so I always keep encounters polite but firm. May not make too many friends but I would rather be safe than sorry.

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Re: Pulled over ... while walking

#7

Post by CompVest »

I would have asked for a supervisor.
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Lumberjack98
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Re: Pulled over ... while walking

#8

Post by Lumberjack98 »

CompVest wrote:I would have asked for a supervisor.
That's a good point and didn't cross my mind while reading about this.

I think that I would contact the department and ask to speak to the supervising officer on duty and explain what happened and get their feedback. Better yet, go in if you can.
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Purplehood
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Re: Pulled over ... while walking

#9

Post by Purplehood »

Probable cause?

I don't see why you were stopped, period. They made no statements about you resembling a suspect or some other "reason" for pulling you in particular, aside.

This actually sounds like an illegal stop to me. I personally would have been very upset and immediately gone to the nearest police/sheriff station to file a complaint.
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Re: Pulled over ... while walking

#10

Post by flintknapper »

atxgun wrote:I don't know that there was anything illegal about how I was treated. We all know the officers are allowed to disarm you. When I was cuffed he specifically said I was not under arrest, just being detained.
Officers can disarm you, BUT only with restrictions!

§ 411.207. Authority of Peace Officer to Disarm

A peace officer who is acting in the lawful discharge of the officer's official duties may disarm a license holder at any time the officer reasonably believes it is necessary for the protection of the license holder, officer, or another individual. The peace officer shall return the handgun to the license holder before discharging the license holder from the scene if the officer determines that the license holder is not a threat to the officer, license holder, or another individual and if the license holder has not violated any provision of this subchapter or committed any other violation that results in the arrest of the license holder.

If this had happened to me (as you described it), I would be at the Police Chief's office asking for an explanation. I would pointedly ask if his dept. has a "policy" of disarming CHL's....and if not, just what it was that had his officers so spooked.
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Re: Pulled over ... while walking

#11

Post by seamusTX »

IMHO, this was an illegal stop without probable cause. Even if you resembed like a suspect that the police were looking for, your CHL should have assured the officer that you were a good guy. So much for Austin being "liberal."

I have to ask, though, do you fit any profile in terms of appearance?

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Re: Pulled over ... while walking

#12

Post by KBCraig »

This was definitely an illegal stop.

Don't quibble about words like "arrested" or "detained": you were seized (in the legal meaning of the term)! You were not violating any law, but you were accosted and handcuffed.

This was not even a Terry Stop, although that's probably how the officers would describe it (and they might even believe that to be true). Walking down the street, unless there is some other suspicious behavior, is never a "reasonable articulable suspicion that crime is afoot".

I strongly encourage you to follow this up with a complaint to the department.

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Re: Pulled over ... while walking

#13

Post by sivart-dod »

Just another bunch of macho LEO's playing cop and harassing innocent people, there seems to be more and more of that going on now-a-days.
If this had happened to me (as you described it), I would be at the Police Chief's office asking for an explanation. I would pointedly ask if his dept. has a "policy" of disarming CHL's....and if not, just what it was that had his officers so spooked.
:iagree:


Putting you in handcuffs was totally uncalled for, and the fact that they couldnt even wait until you had your belongings safely secure on your person, shows that they are just wimps.
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Re: Pulled over ... while walking

#14

Post by seamusTX »

Reporting this incident is the moral high road.

However, there's an unfortunate history of harassment of people who file complaints. Several years ago, in Santa Fe, Texas, a man asked at the police station about how to file a complaint. He just asked; he didn't file one. He was charged with jaywalking after leaving the police station.

I suggest enlisting some ally before taking action. My first thought is the ACLU of Texas. They are based in Austin.
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Re: Pulled over ... while walking

#15

Post by iratollah »

IIRC, there was a case before the Supreme Court a number of years ago, a homeless guy in California liked to take walks through nice neighborhoods. Ruling was that police cannot stop you and demand ID just because you're walking down the street.
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