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Some of them have a pretty good idea what the law is. I am glad we do not live in a "show me your papers" atmosphere.Papa_Tiger wrote: ↑Tue Jul 10, 2018 8:46 pm Good luck getting officers to understand the law if you refuse to ID only when you are lawfully detained (i.e. non-consentual or "Terry" stop with reasonable, articulable suspicion that a crime has been or is about to be committed).
Since a Passport is Federal rather than State Issued I don't believe that alone would be accepted. I just copied everything I had and sent it all in to be sure all my bases were covered including my PP, pocket PP, ID, and DL last time I renewed.
If fail to do so you'll likely be arrested and charged with Obstruction. You "can" beat the charge, but you probably won't beat the ride.Papa_Tiger wrote: ↑Tue Jul 10, 2018 8:46 pmGuess what they try to charge you with if you are not under arrest, but they want to get your ID?ScottDLS wrote: ↑Tue Jul 10, 2018 8:11 pm So here's how the law reads:
So the question I've heard raised is when may a LEO or Magistrate DEMAND (with the force of law) that a person display identification. If you're stopped while driving, the transportation code allows the LEO to demand a DL. Failure to produce such could result in being cited for driving without a license. However, theoretically, a traffic stop must be based on probable cause that a crime is taking place or is about to take place. Simply because driving without a license is a crime does not mean that every person driving can be stopped. There is Federal case law to back this up. Carrying a handgun without a license is (sometimes) a crime, but it's not clear whether it is sufficient probable cause to stop you, or even enough reasonable, articulable, suspicion, for a "Terry" stop and detain. Since there is no "stop and ID law" in Texas, it is not clear that a LEO or magistrate may lawfully detain you and legally DEMAND ID. Even if a LEO has probable cause to arrest you...you are only required to identify yourself by truthfully giving your name and date of birth. I guess the point is if you are carrying and not committing any crime, the police have no probable cause to arrest you, search you, and then find that you have a weapon. If they did find one, and you were not licensed as required, then theoretically the charge would be thrown out due to the search being unlawful... Now in reality, good luck with that.[GC §411.205. REQUIREMENT TO DISPLAY LICENSE.
If a license holder is carrying a handgun on or about the license holder’s person when a magistrate or a peace officer demands that the license holder display identification, the license holder shall display both the license holder’s driver’s license or identification certificate issued by the department and the license holder’s handgun license.
Failure to ID. Many police officers are not familiar with the actual text of TPC 38.02 which reads:
Nowhere in this statute are you compelled to give an ID if you are detained, but there are criminal penalties if you give false information while detained. It is an add-on charge if you are lawfully arrested. Good luck getting officers to understand the law if you refuse to ID only when you are lawfully detained (i.e. non-consentual or "Terry" stop with reasonable, articulable suspicion that a crime has been or is about to be committed).(a) A person commits an offense if he intentionally refuses to give his name, residence address, or date of birth to a peace officer who has lawfully arrested the person and requested the information.
(b) A person commits an offense if he intentionally gives a false or fictitious name, residence address, or date of birth to a peace officer who has:
(1) lawfully arrested the person;
(2) lawfully detained the person; or
(3) requested the information from a person that the peace officer has good cause to believe is a witness to a criminal offense.
(c) Except as provided by Subsections (d) and (e), an offense under this section is:
(1) a Class C misdemeanor if the offense is committed under Subsection (a); or
(2) a Class B misdemeanor if the offense is committed under Subsection (b).
(d) If it is shown on the trial of an offense under this section that the defendant was a fugitive from justice at the time of the offense, the offense is:
(1) a Class B misdemeanor if the offense is committed under Subsection (a); or
(2) a Class A misdemeanor if the offense is committed under Subsection (b).
(e) If conduct that constitutes an offense under this section also constitutes an offense under Section 106.07, Alcoholic Beverage Code , the actor may be prosecuted only under Section 106.07 .
We are not required to have an ID while performing nonregulated activities. So Joe citizen can not be expected to produce one when possessing one is not required. Talking to the LEO these days can be dangerous to your safety. They seem to be imprisoning a lot of people lately whose only crimes are talking to the LEO. Most lawyers these days advise keeping one's mouth shut when confronted by LEO.WildRose wrote: ↑Fri Apr 12, 2019 10:21 pm
If fail to do so you'll likely be arrested and charged with Obstruction. You "can" beat the charge, but you probably won't beat the ride.
If they truly suspect you of committing a crime but lack real probable cause/RAS they will look or provoke you until they find one.
I don't like bowing to tyrants but as long as they treat me with respect I'll be respectful and fully cooperate because I don't have anything to hide and I'm not looking to create confrontations with LEO's. I'd rather be on their "good guy" list.
And failing to be polite and cooperative will only provoke them. If you're carrying the last thing you want to do is provoke a cop.Liberty wrote: ↑Sat Apr 13, 2019 5:07 amWe are not required to have an ID while performing nonregulated activities. So Joe citizen can not be expected to produce one when possessing one is not required. Talking to the LEO these days can be dangerous to your safety. They seem to be imprisoning a lot of people lately whose only crimes are talking to the LEO. Most lawyers these days advise keeping one's mouth shut when confronted by LEO.WildRose wrote: ↑Fri Apr 12, 2019 10:21 pm
If fail to do so you'll likely be arrested and charged with Obstruction. You "can" beat the charge, but you probably won't beat the ride.
If they truly suspect you of committing a crime but lack real probable cause/RAS they will look or provoke you until they find one.
I don't like bowing to tyrants but as long as they treat me with respect I'll be respectful and fully cooperate because I don't have anything to hide and I'm not looking to create confrontations with LEO's. I'd rather be on their "good guy" list.
Ooh, wouldn't want to "provoke" a cop by politely exercising my rights. Last I checked we were a country and state with the rule of LAW, not a police state or dictatorship, although we may be steadily marching that direction...WildRose wrote: ↑Sat Apr 13, 2019 5:13 amAnd failing to be polite and cooperative will only provoke them. If you're carrying the last thing you want to do is provoke a cop.Liberty wrote: ↑Sat Apr 13, 2019 5:07 amWe are not required to have an ID while performing nonregulated activities. So Joe citizen can not be expected to produce one when possessing one is not required. Talking to the LEO these days can be dangerous to your safety. They seem to be imprisoning a lot of people lately whose only crimes are talking to the LEO. Most lawyers these days advise keeping one's mouth shut when confronted by LEO.WildRose wrote: ↑Fri Apr 12, 2019 10:21 pm
If fail to do so you'll likely be arrested and charged with Obstruction. You "can" beat the charge, but you probably won't beat the ride.
If they truly suspect you of committing a crime but lack real probable cause/RAS they will look or provoke you until they find one.
I don't like bowing to tyrants but as long as they treat me with respect I'll be respectful and fully cooperate because I don't have anything to hide and I'm not looking to create confrontations with LEO's. I'd rather be on their "good guy" list.
It's pretty obvious who's really creating confrontations and not treating people with respect.WildRose wrote: ↑Fri Apr 12, 2019 10:21 pm
If they truly suspect you of committing a crime but lack real probable cause/RAS they will look or provoke you until they find one.
I don't like bowing to tyrants but as long as they treat me with respect I'll be respectful and fully cooperate because I don't have anything to hide and I'm not looking to create confrontations with LEO's. I'd rather be on their "good guy" list.
Just curious, which lane were you driving in?crazy2medic wrote: ↑Sat Apr 13, 2019 8:40 am Last time I was pulled over (for driving in the wrong lane, there's a wrong lane? Who knew!) DPS Trooper first question was "sir do you have any firearms in your vehicle?" I told him .45 on my left hip and .45 carbine under the backseat, his reply was "OK" he asked for my license, I handed him my DL, LTC, and Security Commission, he handed me back the LTC, Commission, wrote me a warning, we talked about the Trooper that lives in my son's apartment complex and went our separate ways!
I see no reason to not present your credentials, if it will put them at ease, I'm good with that!
Were you driving on the grand parkway yesterday? I was considering doing a pit maneuver to get that left lane camper out of the way.crazy2medic wrote: ↑Mon Apr 15, 2019 9:36 am Left! Apparently it's only for passing even though I wasn't the only one driving in the left lane!
Is it possible to get an HGL with neither a DL nor a state-issued ID?Soccerdad1995 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 10, 2018 5:14 pm As far as I know, there is no legal requirement to obtain either a DL or an "identification certificate" so it could be entirely impossible for one to comply with this law as written.
That's been a law for a long time. People driving in the left lane and slowing down traffic is a big issue around here. Glad he brought it to your attention and you got off with a warning.crazy2medic wrote: ↑Mon Apr 15, 2019 9:36 am Left! Apparently it's only for passing even though I wasn't the only one driving in the left lane!
mojo84 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 15, 2019 10:18 amThat's been a law for a long time. People driving in the left lane and slowing down traffic is a big issue around here. Glad he brought it to your attention and you got off with a warning.crazy2medic wrote: ↑Mon Apr 15, 2019 9:36 am Left! Apparently it's only for passing even though I wasn't the only one driving in the left lane!
www.txdot.gov/driver/share-road/highway-driving.html
