Failing a student?

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Keith B
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Re: Failing a student?

#16

Post by Keith B » Tue Mar 06, 2018 10:30 pm

Crossfire wrote:Keith - I will never forget that 9mm ammo in the 45ACP! I still don't know how he managed to get them loaded in the magazine.
I actually tried it in a couple of different magazines once I got home. One with the feed lips a little wider would not hold the rounds, but if the feed lips were closer together, then the rounds loaded OK. Scary!!!
Keith
Texas LTC Instructor, Missouri CCW Instructor, NRA Certified Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun Instructor and RSO, NRA Life Member

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Vol Texan
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Re: Failing a student?

#17

Post by Vol Texan » Tue Mar 06, 2018 11:25 pm

I've only been doing this since January of this year, and I've had only one student not pass the proficiency on the first try. She had a DAO small pistol in .380, and it had a nice snap to it. I asked her to tryout her son's Beretta 92FS on her second try. She rose from a 135 to a 219, just because she had a better pistol to shoot.
Your number one option for personal security is a lifelong commitment to avoidance, deterrence, and de-escalation.
When those fail, aim for center mass.

www.HoustonLTC.com: Texas LTC Instructor & NRA Pistol Instructor | www.Texas3006.com Moderator | Armored Cav. | Tennessee Squire


MechAg94
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Re: Failing a student?

#18

Post by MechAg94 » Wed Mar 07, 2018 9:48 am

I have shot a 9mm out of a 40 cal pistol, never in a 45. The CZ P01 and P06 use identical magazines with different followers. I grabbed the wrong magazines for the gun I picked out. The 9mm case fire formed to the 40 chamber. The pistol didn't cycle well.

At my first CHL class, a guy showed up with a brand new, never fired, never cleaned Jennings 9mm. The instructor took a couple minutes with him to oil it up and get it working.

Another renewal class, my ParaOrdnance P14 which had been nearly perfectly reliable decided to have a couple of failures to eject. Another guy next to me had bragged about his tuned up 1911 before the test and it had more malfunctions than mine did. I carry better guns now.


twomillenium
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Re: Failing a student?

#19

Post by twomillenium » Wed Mar 07, 2018 3:03 pm

Charles L. Cotton wrote:
Liberty wrote:Are they allowed to retest if they do fail?
They can shoot three times in a single class, but I'm not sure about the written exam. I believe I recall a DPS instructor/speaker saying they could do both the written exam and range portion of the class three times, but I could be wrong. I guess I should find out in case it happens. :oops:

Chas.
I have never had a student fail, I have had some who had to shoot a 2nd time. I did have one student that was told to leave class because he continued to be disruptive and want to argue about any and all laws that required licensing. I told him that I was not there to debate the law but to teach how it applies. I gave him a chance and then a warning and then made good on the warning. BTW, the class applauded when he left.

Texas Administrative Code, Part 1 Chapter 6, Subchapter B, rule 6.11
(c) A handgun license applicant will have three opportunities to pass the written examination and the proficiency examination within a 12 month period.
Texas LTC Instructor, NRA pistol instructor, RSO, NRA Endowment Life , TSRA, Glock enthusiast (tho I have others)
Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit, wisdom is knowing not to add it to a fruit salad.

You will never know another me, this could be good or not so good, but it is still true.


skeathley
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Re: Failing a student?

#20

Post by skeathley » Sun Mar 11, 2018 12:30 am

Out of 1500 students, I have had about 5 fail the written, usually due to an extreme difficulty with English vocabulary. I reviewed with them the ones missed, and let them take it again. They all passed the 2nd time, without my help.

I have had about 8 fail the Proficiency, always from jerking the trigger. After showing them the right way to work the trigger, they all passed the 2nd time, sometimes gaining over 50 points from the first time.

I try to screen out beginners, but still get some that are short on experience. I have doubts about letting people who score 175-199 carry a gun in public, but I don't make the rules.

:fire
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Vol Texan
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Re: Failing a student?

#21

Post by Vol Texan » Mon Mar 12, 2018 12:07 am

Vol Texan wrote:I've only been doing this since January of this year, and I've had only one student not pass the proficiency on the first try. She had a DAO small pistol in .380, and it had a nice snap to it. I asked her to tryout her son's Beretta 92FS on her second try. She rose from a 135 to a 219, just because she had a better pistol to shoot.
After today, I had another student have to retake the shooting test. It was another 'wrong gun' issue. After switching him to my gun, he shot over 230.

But today I did have to escort one student off the firing line - repeatedly I asked him to keep the gun pointed downrange, and repeatedly he was turning the gun 90 degrees to the left. Granted, we were in the far left lane, and there was a cinder block wall, but I expect everyone to demonstrate safe gun handling, no matter where they are. I have to assume he'd do the same thing, even if we were in a middle lane with a kid shooting next to him on the left side.

The range safety officers were amazed I'd take my own student off the line - they'd had a problem with another instructor just earlier in the day (actually, they said they have a problem with his students often, and they are the ones who have to correct the errors. But when I pulled my own student off the line, they thanked me profusely, and said I could teach on their range anytime.

I told my student that I'd GLADLY take him shooting another time to help him with his safe gun handling and range etiquette. I'll even give him an hour or two of my time at no charge, as long as he pays for ammo and range fees. I hope that he takes me up on it - he seemed like a great guy.
Your number one option for personal security is a lifelong commitment to avoidance, deterrence, and de-escalation.
When those fail, aim for center mass.

www.HoustonLTC.com: Texas LTC Instructor & NRA Pistol Instructor | www.Texas3006.com Moderator | Armored Cav. | Tennessee Squire


twomillenium
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Re: Failing a student?

#22

Post by twomillenium » Mon Mar 12, 2018 6:40 am

Vol Texan wrote:
Vol Texan wrote:I've only been doing this since January of this year, and I've had only one student not pass the proficiency on the first try. She had a DAO small pistol in .380, and it had a nice snap to it. I asked her to tryout her son's Beretta 92FS on her second try. She rose from a 135 to a 219, just because she had a better pistol to shoot.
After today, I had another student have to retake the shooting test. It was another 'wrong gun' issue. After switching him to my gun, he shot over 230.

But today I did have to escort one student off the firing line - repeatedly I asked him to keep the gun pointed downrange, and repeatedly he was turning the gun 90 degrees to the left. Granted, we were in the far left lane, and there was a cinder block wall, but I expect everyone to demonstrate safe gun handling, no matter where they are. I have to assume he'd do the same thing, even if we were in a middle lane with a kid shooting next to him on the left side.

The range safety officers were amazed I'd take my own student off the line - they'd had a problem with another instructor just earlier in the day (actually, they said they have a problem with his students often, and they are the ones who have to correct the errors. But when I pulled my own student off the line, they thanked me profusely, and said I could teach on their range anytime.

I told my student that I'd GLADLY take him shooting another time to help him with his safe gun handling and range etiquette. I'll even give him an hour or two of my time at no charge, as long as he pays for ammo and range fees. I hope that he takes me up on it - he seemed like a great guy.
Good Job! I too have had to do that with a couple or three students over the years. I have given many warnings, which were followed, since they carried the words "next time you will be disqualified from this shoot". I do offer a separate shooting time with the student paying all expenses, I have not charged for my time in these.
Only one student has decided that carrying a pistol was not for them and did not finish. One incident, where my wifey was present, now requires (her orders) that I wear a bullet resistant vest (no such thing as bullet proof) when I am at the outdoor range with multiple students. I have yet to have a student fail all 3 chances at the proficiency test.

I also highly recommend (especially now days) that an instructor were a body cam when teaching one on one or with a group of females they do not know. Just the presence of the body cam may protect you from that rare false accusation, that is almost impossible to defend. I just tell the student I use it to self-critique my teaching methods.
Texas LTC Instructor, NRA pistol instructor, RSO, NRA Endowment Life , TSRA, Glock enthusiast (tho I have others)
Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit, wisdom is knowing not to add it to a fruit salad.

You will never know another me, this could be good or not so good, but it is still true.

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Re: Failing a student?

#23

Post by Charles L. Cotton » Mon Mar 12, 2018 11:39 am

Good job Vol Texan. My range safety briefing includes a warning that sweeping anyone with the muzzle will result in your being off the relay. They are also told that, if I have to warn them more than twice that they are getting too close to sweeping someone, they'll be off the relay. I do tell them that I will stay after the class is over to let them shoot the course. Thankfully, that has happened only once.

Chas.
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mloamiller
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Re: Failing a student?

#24

Post by mloamiller » Mon Mar 12, 2018 1:36 pm

Charles L. Cotton wrote:Good job Vol Texan. My range safety briefing includes a warning that sweeping anyone with the muzzle will result in your being off the relay. They are also told that, if I have to warn them more than twice that they are getting too close to sweeping someone, they'll be off the relay. I do tell them that I will stay after the class is over to let them shoot the course. Thankfully, that has happened only once.

Chas.
I've always told my students that sweeping themselves or someone else with their pistol was an automatic failure on the proficiency. I've never had to actually fail anyone because of it, so I've never had the discussion about a reshoot.

I've never had any student fail the shooting or written test.
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