On line classes have started

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gpeloq
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On line classes have started

#1

Post by gpeloq » Thu May 10, 2018 10:38 am

Received email today regarding on line LTC classes and the new LTC-101 forms that we will use to report the proficiency portion of the class.
One on line company I looked up is charging $49 for the class. What do you think we will be able to charge for the range portion?
I expect this to have a great impact on in person classes. People can take the class anytime they choose, such as at work. I guess time will tell.
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Re: On line classes have started

#2

Post by goheeled » Thu May 10, 2018 10:50 am

I'm charging the same rate as my LTC class. Time is money.

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mloamiller
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Re: On line classes have started

#3

Post by mloamiller » Thu May 10, 2018 12:11 pm

It's been a long time since the renewal class in August, but I don't remember there being any specific requirements for the range instruction portion. Are there?
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Re: On line classes have started

#4

Post by gpeloq » Thu May 10, 2018 12:12 pm

The form states 1 - 2 hours.
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Re: On line classes have started

#5

Post by mloamiller » Thu May 10, 2018 12:45 pm

gpeloq wrote:The form states 1 - 2 hours.
I was interested mainly in requirements as to content. I can't open the Online Course Provider Course Outline (PDF) - the password must be different vs. the "normal" course outline.

I'll check my notes when I get home, but I don't remember any specifics being discussed.
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Re: On line classes have started

#6

Post by gpeloq » Thu May 10, 2018 1:44 pm

All we will be doing is the range portion of our classes just as we do them now. Have them shoot 50 rounds at required distance and we are done.
Sign off on the LTC-101 that they received from the online provider and the applicant is finished. Same as we do now except no classroom.
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Re: On line classes have started

#7

Post by mloamiller » Thu May 10, 2018 2:28 pm

The form seems to imply that the proficiency is separate from the instruction - two different signatures to indicate you spent 1-2 hours in instruction, then did the proficiency. I could be wrong, of course, but that's the way the form comes across to me.

Also, I would hardly consider just shooting the proficiency as "instruction" and I can easily have one shooter done in less than an hour.
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Re: On line classes have started

#8

Post by apostate » Thu May 10, 2018 4:20 pm

goheeled wrote:I'm charging the same rate as my LTC class.
:thumbs2:


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Re: On line classes have started

#9

Post by skeathley » Thu May 10, 2018 5:20 pm

It is my understanding that we have to give an hour of range instruction, then the Proficiency. Until DPS clarifies this. I'm not doing these at all. If it turns out that I am correct about the requirement, then I'm still not doing them. Let the online providers do it.

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Re: On line classes have started

#10

Post by Mike S » Thu May 10, 2018 10:19 pm

There's a requirement for the on-line students to receive 1 to 2 hours of range instruction, and to conduct the Range Proficiency Exam.

Govt Code 411.188 (on pg 18 of the 2018 LTC-16) says:
(d-1) A qualified handgun instructor shall require an applicant who successfully completed an online version of the classroom instruction part of the handgun proficiency course to complete not less than one hour but not more than two hours of the range instruction part of the handgun proficiency course before allowing a physical demonstration of the handgun proficiency as described by Subsection (d)(2).
(Subsection (d)(2) is the Range Proficiency Exam)

Other than the 1-2 hours of range instruction preceeding the qual, there's no set course outline for what must be covered in the range training. The DPS email from today says the topics covered in this 1-2 hrs is up to the instructor's discretion.

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Re: On line classes have started

#11

Post by BCGlocker » Sat May 12, 2018 7:35 am

So for me, it still requires me to "rent" a classroom which is the same cost as if I taught the entire class. I don't see any benefit here. My fixed costs remain the same and my overall income will be reduced.
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Re: On line classes have started

#12

Post by howdy » Sat May 12, 2018 8:39 am

I received this email from an online course provider:


My name is Kevin Knapp and I am a Texas DPS certified provider for online LTC training. My wife and I own and operate HandgunLicense.com and I have lived in Texas my entire life. I've been an online provider for driver education and CDL training for over 14 years.

I am excited to expand into the handgun training business and hope that what I have to offer you and your business will be an exciting new way for you to generate additional revenue.

As you may know, the state of Texas now allows for online training if the student uses a certified Texas provider. HandgunLicense.com is fully certified by the state of Texas (DPS #02667080). I am certified under Texas GC 411.188 and GC 411.190 to administer the LTC Online Course (classroom instruction only).

We expect handgun training to take off just like drivers education did back 10 years ago. We are excited about the future and would like to tell you about partnership opportunities between your company and HandgunLicense.com.

We refer to our learning style as Online Hybrid. This means that the student will get all the basic information about the laws, safety, dispute resolution and storage from the online course and then when they require the most important part of the training, the range training and proficiency test, we will push them to you and your talent and experience.

Electronic Learning is a viable and valuable tool and I hope you will take the time to view the sample demonstration I have attached.

Click here to sign up for our Affiliate Program and an application to join our team. Please review it and give me a call if you have any questions. Just a couple of things to leave you with.

To be a part of this program will cost you nothing.
We will pay you 25% of the cost of the course for those students you send to us.
We will send students in your area to you for free.
You would be freed up on your regular training days to take on more students for the range portion.
Your students will never have to wait to take the classroom training.
You will beat your competitors to the punch.
You will establish your business as technical friendly.
You will make more money.
This is a great opportunity for this industry. More people than ever before will get their LTC because of companies like yours and mine. Let’s partner up and teach people the proper way to handle a gun in Texas.

Thanks for your time.

Kevin Knapp

Owner
(817) 888.8339
kevin@handgunlicense.com
HandgunLicense.com





https://www.handgunlicense.com

It looks like he is not a Texas LTC Instructor is just going to put together the course.
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Re: On line classes have started

#13

Post by skeathley » Sun May 13, 2018 4:52 pm

I saw a Facebook ad for one of these online providers. They claim that, after taking their $49 course, you just have to go to a local range for the Proficiency, and you will end up paying about the same as for a live course.

I think that is a lie. The average cost of a class seems to be about $80. I don't see any instructor doing one hour of range training + the Proficiency for $31. Based on my current rates, that would cost about $90. I suspect most people will end up having real trouble getting the range training, or paying a lot more than they bargained on.

On the flip side, I visited the website of an LTC instructor who also offers the online course, and it *appears* that he is not requiring the range training, just the Proficiency.

I suspect that the only consultation on this idea undertaken by our legislature was with *one* online training firm, who designed the requirements to benefit themselves (and that legislator).

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Re: On line classes have started

#14

Post by RossA » Mon May 14, 2018 12:01 pm

Mike S wrote:There's a requirement for the on-line students to receive 1 to 2 hours of range instruction, and to conduct the Range Proficiency Exam.

Govt Code 411.188 (on pg 18 of the 2018 LTC-16) says:
(d-1) A qualified handgun instructor shall require an applicant who successfully completed an online version of the classroom instruction part of the handgun proficiency course to complete not less than one hour but not more than two hours of the range instruction part of the handgun proficiency course before allowing a physical demonstration of the handgun proficiency as described by Subsection (d)(2).
(Subsection (d)(2) is the Range Proficiency Exam)

Other than the 1-2 hours of range instruction preceeding the qual, there's no set course outline for what must be covered in the range training. The DPS email from today says the topics covered in this 1-2 hrs is up to the instructor's discretion.
So if I read this correctly, the range portion must come AFTER the classroom instruction, and the student has to provide us with some proof of successful completion of the classroom part before we can conduct the proficiency exam? In traditional classes, you can conduct the range portion before the class portion.
Also, since the class is online, with no instructor to issue and sign a LTC 101 in person, what will a student show us to prove that he has already completed the classroom part?
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Re: On line classes have started

#15

Post by twomillenium » Mon May 14, 2018 4:20 pm

I received my first call about online class, they asked how do they do the "shooting part". I told them a certified LTC instructor would have to do 1-2 hours of state required instruction and then the "shooting part". She asked how much, I told her I charged the same as I would if she took the whole class from me $75 plus range fee. She said, "What if there were 2 or 3 of us?" I told her $75 for 1, $150 for 2 and $225 for 3 plus range fee. She said "What is so good about online course?" I said, " You can take it in parts, but you do not get the personal attention that most students need and you get to pay more for the entire certification!" She said, "When is your next class?". I told her and then she said "Sign us up and I will send you whatever deposit you require." I said "Thank you and I believe you are making a decision that is going to benefit you best and since there were 3 of them, I would include the range fee".
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