New Instructor Training Questions

A meeting place for CHL instructors

Moderators: carlson1, Crossfire

User avatar

Topic author
AJSully421
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 10
Posts: 1394
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2008 4:31 pm
Location: SW Fort Worth

New Instructor Training Questions

#1

Post by AJSully421 » Wed Oct 31, 2018 3:38 am

I am signed up for a class, have my hotel booked. Couple of questions: carry policy in the classroom, and is there anything that you wish you would have known or studied before hand?
"The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant, it's just that they know so much that isn't so." - Ronald Reagan, 1964

30.06 signs only make criminals and terrorists safer.

NRA, LTC, School Safety, Armed Security, & Body Guard Instructor


montgomery
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 5
Posts: 337
Joined: Sun May 31, 2015 8:13 am
Location: Montgomery, Texas

Re: New Instructor Training Questions

#2

Post by montgomery » Wed Oct 31, 2018 5:38 am

Congratulations on wanting to become a LTC instructor.

As I recall, the classroom is cold: no live firearms permitted.

I regret not bringing enough water, snacks, or lunch with me each day. Leaving the range is a project because the nearest food is a gas station 20 minutes away and it has very long lines.

Take plenty of note taking materials.

Be sure to bring extra ammunition - if you fail to score 90% or better, you will have to reshoot to qualify. Which brings me to: be sure you can shoot the qual. A surprisingly high number of students who were fast talking high speed billy badass cul-de-sac operators all week failed the shoot.

You have to qualify twice: once with semiauto and once with a revolver.

Dress comfortably and casually for class.

The thing I wish I knew before I went: you will have to not only reshoot to qualify every three years (major hassle finding another LTC instructor willing to do work with you) but you are also required to drive to Georgetown every three years and sit through a half day update course to maintain your instructor credentials. This content could easily be delivered online. But every instructor in the state must bear the burden of traveling to this event.

The DPS firearms instructors are outstanding, and the facility is top notch. Be sure to take some time to view the Texas Rangers memorial in the main hall area of the classroom building.

Have fun!

User avatar

rob777
Member
Posts in topic: 2
Posts: 92
Joined: Sat Dec 12, 2015 10:17 am
Location: Cypress TX

Re: New Instructor Training Questions

#3

Post by rob777 » Wed Oct 31, 2018 7:33 am

Agree... bring snacks and drinks, especially on range day; take notes; ask questions.
On the shooting qualification, it seemed several guys were only familiar with semi-autos and struggled with the revolver. We had more fail round 1 than I would've guessed. If you're in that camp you might want to get in a little practice with a revolver beforehand.
Good luck and have fun!
"Rescue the weak and the needy; deliver them from the hand of the wicked.”

User avatar

AF-Odin
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 3
Posts: 359
Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2009 7:00 pm
Location: Near Fort Hood

Re: New Instructor Training Questions

#4

Post by AF-Odin » Wed Oct 31, 2018 7:59 am

Had a guy in my class who had never fired a revolver and brought a friend's S&W. He had a minor malfunction where the extractor rod backed out a little and he was unable to open the cylinder. Instructor showed him what to do, but he still DQ'd the revolver phase. For what it is worth, one guy had a Ruger Blackhawk single action and he had no issues meeting all the times.

Practice, practice, practice. As an instructor you should be able to easily shoot 90%+ on the qual.

My last requal was at the Georgetown Community Center, not at the DPS training facility. Carry was OK there.
AF-Odin
Texas LTC Instructor
NRA Pistol, Home Firearms Safety, Personal Protection in the Home Instructor
NRA & TSRA Life Member


montgomery
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 5
Posts: 337
Joined: Sun May 31, 2015 8:13 am
Location: Montgomery, Texas

Re: New Instructor Training Questions

#5

Post by montgomery » Wed Oct 31, 2018 8:13 am

Another thing: most folks struggled with scoring. If you are not familiar with the scoring system or HOW to score 50 rounds, I recommend getting a B-27, shoot the qualification, and score using the 5-4-3-0 system on the upper left corner.

Bottom line is you need to know how to score and you will be tested on scoring. You will be expected to score the shooter's target next to you on the line. The key is to be systematic.

User avatar

Topic author
AJSully421
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 10
Posts: 1394
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2008 4:31 pm
Location: SW Fort Worth

Re: New Instructor Training Questions

#6

Post by AJSully421 » Wed Oct 31, 2018 8:33 am

montgomery wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 5:38 am
Congratulations on wanting to become a LTC instructor.

As I recall, the classroom is cold: no live firearms permitted.

I regret not bringing enough water, snacks, or lunch with me each day. Leaving the range is a project because the nearest food is a gas station 20 minutes away and it has very long lines.

Take plenty of note taking materials.

Be sure to bring extra ammunition - if you fail to score 90% or better, you will have to reshoot to qualify. Which brings me to: be sure you can shoot the qual. A surprisingly high number of students who were fast talking high speed billy badass cul-de-sac operators all week failed the shoot.

You have to qualify twice: once with semiauto and once with a revolver.

Dress comfortably and casually for class.

The thing I wish I knew before I went: you will have to not only reshoot to qualify every three years (major hassle finding another LTC instructor willing to do work with you) but you are also required to drive to Georgetown every three years and sit through a half day update course to maintain your instructor credentials. This content could easily be delivered online. But every instructor in the state must bear the burden of traveling to this event.

The DPS firearms instructors are outstanding, and the facility is top notch. Be sure to take some time to view the Texas Rangers memorial in the main hall area of the classroom building.

Have fun!
All great info. Thanks!

I did not know about making a pilgrimage to Georgetown every so often... glad I am in Fort Worth and not Texarkana, Brownsville, El Paso, or Dalhart...

I have borrowed a buddy’s revolver for this, but if I am having to do this often, I guess I need to bite the bullet and get something easier to qual with than my S&W 442...
Last edited by AJSully421 on Wed Oct 31, 2018 8:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
"The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant, it's just that they know so much that isn't so." - Ronald Reagan, 1964

30.06 signs only make criminals and terrorists safer.

NRA, LTC, School Safety, Armed Security, & Body Guard Instructor

User avatar

Topic author
AJSully421
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 10
Posts: 1394
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2008 4:31 pm
Location: SW Fort Worth

Re: New Instructor Training Questions

#7

Post by AJSully421 » Wed Oct 31, 2018 8:43 am

rob777 wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 7:33 am
Agree... bring snacks and drinks, especially on range day; take notes; ask questions.
On the shooting qualification, it seemed several guys were only familiar with semi-autos and struggled with the revolver. We had more fail round 1 than I would've guessed. If you're in that camp you might want to get in a little practice with a revolver beforehand.
Good luck and have fun!
Good point. I have a 442 that I almost never carry and have not shot in a couple of years. I need to get a “real revolver” and practice more. I borrowed a buddy’s full size 4” S&W .357 and have run the qual twice on a timer with pip squeak .38 loads. I got a couple outside of the 5 ring under those conditions.

On a semi auto I am not worried because I practice often. I took the LTC and 1 renewal before those were done away with, plus for Security we do the same LTC qual every 2 years. Never scored anything but 250 with my semi auto.

I will get a better revolver, practice, and run the qual a few more times with the revolver. Thanks!
Last edited by AJSully421 on Thu Nov 01, 2018 2:23 am, edited 2 times in total.
"The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant, it's just that they know so much that isn't so." - Ronald Reagan, 1964

30.06 signs only make criminals and terrorists safer.

NRA, LTC, School Safety, Armed Security, & Body Guard Instructor


montgomery
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 5
Posts: 337
Joined: Sun May 31, 2015 8:13 am
Location: Montgomery, Texas

Re: New Instructor Training Questions

#8

Post by montgomery » Wed Oct 31, 2018 8:46 am

AJSully421 wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 8:33 am
montgomery wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 5:38 am
Congratulations on wanting to become a LTC instructor.

As I recall, the classroom is cold: no live firearms permitted.

I regret not bringing enough water, snacks, or lunch with me each day. Leaving the range is a project because the nearest food is a gas station 20 minutes away and it has very long lines.

Take plenty of note taking materials.

Be sure to bring extra ammunition - if you fail to score 90% or better, you will have to reshoot to qualify. Which brings me to: be sure you can shoot the qual. A surprisingly high number of students who were fast talking high speed billy badass cul-de-sac operators all week failed the shoot.

You have to qualify twice: once with semiauto and once with a revolver.

Dress comfortably and casually for class.

The thing I wish I knew before I went: you will have to not only reshoot to qualify every three years (major hassle finding another LTC instructor willing to do work with you) but you are also required to drive to Georgetown every three years and sit through a half day update course to maintain your instructor credentials. This content could easily be delivered online. But every instructor in the state must bear the burden of traveling to this event.

The DPS firearms instructors are outstanding, and the facility is top notch. Be sure to take some time to view the Texas Rangers memorial in the main hall area of the classroom building.

Have fun!
All great info. Thanks!

I did not know about making a pilgrimage to Georgetown every so often... glad I am in Fort Worth and not Texarkana, Brownsville, El Paso, or Dalhart...

I was going to borrow a buddy’s revolver, but if I am having to do this often, I guess I need to bite the bullet and get something easier to qual with than my S&W 442...
I ended up buying a Ruger GP100 6 shot double action 357 magnum revolver - it gets the job done with zero issues.

If you like Greek food, there is an awesome restaurant on I-35 if you time it right: https://www.plakagreekcafe.com/

User avatar

Topic author
AJSully421
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 10
Posts: 1394
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2008 4:31 pm
Location: SW Fort Worth

Re: New Instructor Training Questions

#9

Post by AJSully421 » Wed Oct 31, 2018 9:00 am

montgomery wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 8:13 am
Another thing: most folks struggled with scoring. If you are not familiar with the scoring system or HOW to score 50 rounds, I recommend getting a B-27, shoot the qualification, and score using the 5-4-3-0 system on the upper left corner.

Bottom line is you need to know how to score and you will be tested on scoring. You will be expected to score the shooter's target next to you on the line. The key is to be systematic.
Perfect example of “things you wish you would have known before” Thanks!

Are you allowed to count down when scoring? As in, can you assume you have 50 holes and 250 points and then count down by 1 for a 4 zone, 2 for a 3 zone and so on?

At my last LTC (CHL) requal, there was a competition shooter who had 5-6 identifiable holes on his target. One big one, with only a few that were not touching the big one. Can’t count 50 holes that way...
"The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant, it's just that they know so much that isn't so." - Ronald Reagan, 1964

30.06 signs only make criminals and terrorists safer.

NRA, LTC, School Safety, Armed Security, & Body Guard Instructor


Mike S
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 3
Posts: 442
Joined: Sun Sep 06, 2015 5:08 pm
Contact:

Re: New Instructor Training Questions

#10

Post by Mike S » Wed Oct 31, 2018 10:56 am

AJSully421 wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 9:00 am
montgomery wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 8:13 am
Another thing: most folks struggled with scoring. If you are not familiar with the scoring system or HOW to score 50 rounds, I recommend getting a B-27, shoot the qualification, and score using the 5-4-3-0 system on the upper left corner.

Bottom line is you need to know how to score and you will be tested on scoring. You will be expected to score the shooter's target next to you on the line. The key is to be systematic.
Perfect example of “things you wish you would have known before” Thanks!

Are you allowed to count down when scoring? As in, can you assume you have 50 holes and 250 points and then count down by 1 for a 4 zone, 2 for a 3 zone and so on?

At my last LTC (CHL) requal, there was a competition shooter who had 5-6 identifiable holes on his target. One big one, with only a few that were not touching the big one. Can’t count 50 holes that way...
AJ,
The DPS Instructors will go over their scoring procedure as part of the class, prior to the practical exercise.

Step 1: Account for all 50 rounds. Just counting to ensure all 50 are there. (They do make allowances for what you described, where it's obvious several rounds went through one ragged hole. They will address this, & if they don't please ask the question for your own edification.). If any rounds were 'held' (meaning the shooter didn't fire for whatever reason), missed the green scoring area, or were fired after time elapsed you will need to deduct 5x points for each one at step 2. If there's a malfunction, the shooter must remediate on his/her own & complete the engagement within the time required (if not, anything after the buzzer/time elapsed won't count).

Step 2: Begin at 250 (possible points), then deduct any misses/held rounds/late rounds from step 1. Then deduct 1 point for anything inside the 8 ring. Then deduct 2 points for anything inside the 7 ring. (For scoring purposes, if the hole burns the line (actual hole breaks the line, not paper tears), it counts as the higher score area.). The remaining points is the shooter's score.

Hope this helps.

User avatar

Topic author
AJSully421
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 10
Posts: 1394
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2008 4:31 pm
Location: SW Fort Worth

Re: New Instructor Training Questions

#11

Post by AJSully421 » Wed Oct 31, 2018 12:58 pm

Great info. Thanks.
"The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant, it's just that they know so much that isn't so." - Ronald Reagan, 1964

30.06 signs only make criminals and terrorists safer.

NRA, LTC, School Safety, Armed Security, & Body Guard Instructor

User avatar

jmorris
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 4
Posts: 1269
Joined: Sat Mar 08, 2008 4:41 pm
Location: Cibolo
Contact:

Re: New Instructor Training Questions

#12

Post by jmorris » Thu Nov 01, 2018 5:01 pm

montgomery wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 5:38 am
As I recall, the classroom is cold: no live firearms permitted.
Don't remember this ever being discussed. I carried every day.
montgomery wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 5:38 am
I regret not bringing enough water, snacks, or lunch with me each day. Leaving the range is a project because the nearest food is a gas station 20 minutes away and it has very long lines.

Take plenty of note taking materials.

Be sure to bring extra ammunition - if you fail to score 90% or better, you will have to reshoot to qualify. Which brings me to: be sure you can shoot the qual. A surprisingly high number of students who were fast talking high speed billy badass cul-de-sac operators all week failed the shoot.

You have to qualify twice: once with semiauto and once with a revolver.

Dress comfortably and casually for class.
Wholeheartedly agree with all this. The revolver is not that hard, people just make it that hard. I had plenty of time to cock and fire SA for every shot.
montgomery wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 5:38 am
The thing I wish I knew before I went: you will have to not only reshoot to qualify every three years (major hassle finding another LTC instructor willing to do work with you) but you are also required to drive to Georgetown every three years and sit through a half day update course to maintain your instructor credentials. This content could easily be delivered online. But every instructor in the state must bear the burden of traveling to this event.
I thought it was every two years to cover just passed changes in laws.
montgomery wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 5:38 am
The DPS firearms instructors are outstanding, and the facility is top notch. Be sure to take some time to view the Texas Rangers memorial in the main hall area of the classroom building.

Have fun!
Ditto and ditto.
Jay E Morris, Guardian Firearm Training, NRA Pistol, LTC, Cibolo, Tx
NRA Lifetime
TSRA Lifetime (as of my 2019 official old fart birthday)
NRA Recruiter (link)

User avatar

troglodyte
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 1
Posts: 1145
Joined: Fri Dec 24, 2004 4:16 pm
Location: Hockley County
Contact:

Re: New Instructor Training Questions

#13

Post by troglodyte » Thu Nov 01, 2018 5:22 pm

jmorris wrote:
Thu Nov 01, 2018 5:01 pm
montgomery wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 5:38 am
As I recall, the classroom is cold: no live firearms permitted.
Don't remember this ever being discussed. I carried every day.
montgomery wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 5:38 am
I regret not bringing enough water, snacks, or lunch with me each day. Leaving the range is a project because the nearest food is a gas station 20 minutes away and it has very long lines.

Take plenty of note taking materials.

Be sure to bring extra ammunition - if you fail to score 90% or better, you will have to reshoot to qualify. Which brings me to: be sure you can shoot the qual. A surprisingly high number of students who were fast talking high speed billy badass cul-de-sac operators all week failed the shoot.

You have to qualify twice: once with semiauto and once with a revolver.

Dress comfortably and casually for class.
Wholeheartedly agree with all this. The revolver is not that hard, people just make it that hard. I had plenty of time to cock and fire SA for every shot.
montgomery wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 5:38 am
The thing I wish I knew before I went: you will have to not only reshoot to qualify every three years (major hassle finding another LTC instructor willing to do work with you) but you are also required to drive to Georgetown every three years and sit through a half day update course to maintain your instructor credentials. This content could easily be delivered online. But every instructor in the state must bear the burden of traveling to this event.
I thought it was every two years to cover just passed changes in laws.
montgomery wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 5:38 am
The DPS firearms instructors are outstanding, and the facility is top notch. Be sure to take some time to view the Texas Rangers memorial in the main hall area of the classroom building.

Have fun!
Ditto and ditto.
Unless they have changed the carry status in the last couple of years I carried at my CHL instructor's class (10 years ago) and more recently, my School Safety instructor's class (until we ran scenarios).

Every two years we "meet". Alternate Austin and online.

Top notch instructors that will make sure you know what you need to know.

One thing I have noticed every time I have interacted with the DPS at any level is they are extremely polite and respectful. I took the School Safety class at their main facility in Florence. I half-way expected to be looked at like a rookie or outsider in their backyard but I never felt that way. Every DPS trooper and employee treated all of us like we were equals and we were all doing our part to keep Texas safe.
Talon Firearms Training
License To Carry Instructor
School Safety Instructor
NRA Instructor - Basic pistol, Personal Protection in the Home, Personal Protection Outside the Home.

User avatar

jmorris
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 4
Posts: 1269
Joined: Sat Mar 08, 2008 4:41 pm
Location: Cibolo
Contact:

Re: New Instructor Training Questions

#14

Post by jmorris » Thu Nov 01, 2018 6:02 pm

Mike S wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 10:56 am
.........

AJ,
The DPS Instructors will go over their scoring procedure as part of the class, prior to the practical exercise.

Step 1: Account for all 50 rounds. Just counting to ensure all 50 are there. (They do make allowances for what you described, where it's obvious several rounds went through one ragged hole. They will address this, & if they don't please ask the question for your own edification.). If any rounds were 'held' (meaning the shooter didn't fire for whatever reason), missed the green scoring area, or were fired after time elapsed you will need to deduct 5x points for each one at step 2. If there's a malfunction, the shooter must remediate on his/her own & complete the engagement within the time required (if not, anything after the buzzer/time elapsed won't count).

Step 2: Begin at 250 (possible points), then deduct any misses/held rounds/late rounds from step 1. Then deduct 1 point for anything inside the 8 ring. Then deduct 2 points for anything inside the 7 ring. (For scoring purposes, if the hole burns the line (actual hole breaks the line, not paper tears), it counts as the higher score area.). The remaining points is the shooter's score.

Hope this helps.
This must have changed because in my class they just had us count the ones outside the silhouette, then threes, then fours, then fives. Just checked the instructor handout to verify.
Jay E Morris, Guardian Firearm Training, NRA Pistol, LTC, Cibolo, Tx
NRA Lifetime
TSRA Lifetime (as of my 2019 official old fart birthday)
NRA Recruiter (link)


montgomery
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 5
Posts: 337
Joined: Sun May 31, 2015 8:13 am
Location: Montgomery, Texas

Re: New Instructor Training Questions

#15

Post by montgomery » Fri Nov 02, 2018 9:34 am

YES, two years - not sure why I typed three ... my bad.

Post Reply

Return to “Instructors' Corner”