Getting cylinder cut for moon clips

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dhoobler
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Getting cylinder cut for moon clips

#1

Post by dhoobler » Sun Jul 07, 2019 10:55 am

I have a Performance Center S&W 637 which I love. I wish the cylinder was cut for moon clips. Can anyone share an experience with sending their revolver off to have the work done?
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Re: Getting cylinder cut for moon clips

#2

Post by Rob72 » Mon Jul 08, 2019 8:59 am

http://pinnaclehighperformance.com/

Mark Hartshorne. Good to deal with, and excellent work. It will take awhile, but it is well worth the wait. I had a SP101 bored for 9mm, using moon clips.


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Re: Getting cylinder cut for moon clips

#3

Post by dhoobler » Mon Aug 12, 2019 11:54 am

I took your advice and sent the cylinder from my 637 to http://pinnaclehighperformance.com. I am very pleased with the results. Cylinder not only cut for moon clips, but chambers are chamfered. Total turn around time from when I put the cylinder in the mail until I had it back in hand was fifteen days.

I bought some TK Custom moon clips. They work well. I can reload a lot faster than with either speed strips or speed loaders.
https://www.tkcustom.com/products/swjx5-025-blue

One caveat, Federal HST's do not play well with moon clips (or speed loaders) because they have the same profile as wadcutters. There is no exposed bullet to guide the rounds into the chambers. This is not a criticism of the work done, just an observation that this load does not work well. I solved that problem by switching to 135 gr. Gold Dots.

The cost was $85 plus $10 return sipping. Total project cost, including initial shipping and moon clips is about $140.

I would highly recommend this service if you are a revolver aficionado and either compete with or carry such.
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Re: Getting cylinder cut for moon clips

#4

Post by The Annoyed Man » Mon Aug 12, 2019 3:47 pm

I have a 327 TRR8, and I find that moon clips are a pain in the behind. Speed loaders add weight and bulk, but I can eject spent brass and reload with less fumbling.
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Re: Getting cylinder cut for moon clips

#5

Post by Rob72 » Mon Aug 12, 2019 6:25 pm

For carrying 9mm moon clips, Ruger has an excellent product:
http://shopruger.com/9mm-Moon-Clip-Case ... nfo/90552/

Otherwise, I generally agree, the leather fold-over carriers are less than optimal.

As noted, I had my cylinder cut for the multi-caliber .356/9mm conversion (takes any nominal .356/9mm round, including .38 Super, .380, 9x23, 9x19, 9x18. You can even shoot .32ACP, but you have a 3 foot drop at 7 yards. :biggrinjester: ) When I went to the range to function test, I was asked to slow down my rate of fire. The RO then realized I was shooting a revolver, and asked me how the heck I was going so fast. He was fascinated to say the least.

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Re: Getting cylinder cut for moon clips

#6

Post by SQLGeek » Mon Aug 12, 2019 9:24 pm

The Annoyed Man wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 3:47 pm
I have a 327 TRR8, and I find that moon clips are a pain in the behind. Speed loaders add weight and bulk, but I can eject spent brass and reload with less fumbling.
I wonder if it's the 8 rounds? I don't have a lot of experience with revolvers but I find I'm much faster with 6 round moonclips than I am with speedloaders.
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Re: Getting cylinder cut for moon clips

#7

Post by 74novaman » Mon Aug 12, 2019 9:50 pm

SQLGeek wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 9:24 pm
The Annoyed Man wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 3:47 pm
I have a 327 TRR8, and I find that moon clips are a pain in the behind. Speed loaders add weight and bulk, but I can eject spent brass and reload with less fumbling.
I wonder if it's the 8 rounds? I don't have a lot of experience with revolvers but I find I'm much faster with 6 round moonclips than I am with speedloaders.
I’m pretty happy with my 8 round moon clips, much preferred to even my comp3 speedloaders, and those are head and shoulders above any other speedloader I’ve tried.

Moon clips are great.
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Re: Getting cylinder cut for moon clips

#8

Post by The Annoyed Man » Tue Aug 13, 2019 2:41 pm

74novaman wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 9:50 pm
SQLGeek wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 9:24 pm
The Annoyed Man wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 3:47 pm
I have a 327 TRR8, and I find that moon clips are a pain in the behind. Speed loaders add weight and bulk, but I can eject spent brass and reload with less fumbling.
I wonder if it's the 8 rounds? I don't have a lot of experience with revolvers but I find I'm much faster with 6 round moonclips than I am with speedloaders.
I’m pretty happy with my 8 round moon clips, much preferred to even my comp3 speedloaders, and those are head and shoulders above any other speedloader I’ve tried.

Moon clips are great.
They may well be for most people. All I know is that I find them easy to eject, but not so easy to line up and drop into the cylinder. I think it’s related to there being 8 rounds to line up instead of 5 or 6. I freely admit that it might be due to two things....
  1. lack of practice, and
  2. even with a dedicated tool, I find it almost impossible to snap that 8th cartridge into the moon clip.
So in the end, it’s just easier to use a speed loader, and get over myself.
Give me Liberty, or I'll get up and get it myself.—Hookalakah Meshobbab
I don't carry because of the odds, I carry because of the stakes.—The Annoyed Boy
My dream is to have lived my life so well that future generations of leftists will demand my name be removed from buildings.

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Re: Getting cylinder cut for moon clips

#9

Post by 74novaman » Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:55 pm

The Annoyed Man wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 2:41 pm
They may well be for most people. All I know is that I find them easy to eject, but not so easy to line up and drop into the cylinder. I think it’s related to there being 8 rounds to line up instead of 5 or 6. I freely admit that it might be due to two things....
  1. lack of practice, and
  2. even with a dedicated tool, I find it almost impossible to snap that 8th cartridge into the moon clip.
So in the end, it’s just easier to use a speed loader, and get over myself.
What moon clips and what ammo? Unfortunately, certain rims and certain clips don't play well together (I've experienced that one, not fun) and can make loading them a real bear.

On the same note, my TK Custom moon clips are noticeably thicker/stronger than my Speedbeez moon clips. Both work fine, but with 8 rounds of 38, the little bit of droop in the SB clips can make them harder to get lined up properly.

And lets be honest: 38 special/357 mag is the hardest to reload via moon clip. Long cases are harder to line up well than short cases...which is why most competition folks shooting with moon clips use 9mm, 38 short colt, 45 acp, etc.

I also continue to struggle with just lining up one round above one hole, and dropping it. When I do that, reloads usually go well. When I try to guide the moon clip all the way in, I'm more likely to bind and slow down. YMMV, but one more thing to try. Let gravity do the work.

It's pretty obvious in this clip:



First reload I'm trying to guide the moon clip all the way in. It's a bad reload. Second one I let it drop a little, and its smoother. Last one I'm having to reload an extra time for a make up shot and I just drop it in a hurry...and it was my fastest reload.

It's counterintuitive and hard to do, but once you start dropping them I think you'll find your reloads start to get smoother.

On the flip side I once got a casing stuck in the cylinder and slipped under the star on a Model 10 in the middle of a stage. I think that was a 15-20 second reload by the time I managed to get the case out of the cylinder, get it out sideways from under the star, and get my speed loader back in action? I'd personally take guaranteed ejection with moons even if I was slower with them than speed loaders on the reload....casings under stars are....less than fun. :biggrinjester:
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Re: Getting cylinder cut for moon clips

#10

Post by The Annoyed Man » Tue Aug 13, 2019 5:11 pm

74novaman wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:55 pm
The Annoyed Man wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 2:41 pm
They may well be for most people. All I know is that I find them easy to eject, but not so easy to line up and drop into the cylinder. I think it’s related to there being 8 rounds to line up instead of 5 or 6. I freely admit that it might be due to two things....
  1. lack of practice, and
  2. even with a dedicated tool, I find it almost impossible to snap that 8th cartridge into the moon clip.
So in the end, it’s just easier to use a speed loader, and get over myself.
What moon clips and what ammo? Unfortunately, certain rims and certain clips don't play well together (I've experienced that one, not fun) and can make loading them a real bear.

On the same note, my TK Custom moon clips are noticeably thicker/stronger than my Speedbeez moon clips. Both work fine, but with 8 rounds of 38, the little bit of droop in the SB clips can make them harder to get lined up properly.

And lets be honest: 38 special/357 mag is the hardest to reload via moon clip. Long cases are harder to line up well than short cases...which is why most competition folks shooting with moon clips use 9mm, 38 short colt, 45 acp, etc.

I also continue to struggle with just lining up one round above one hole, and dropping it. When I do that, reloads usually go well. When I try to guide the moon clip all the way in, I'm more likely to bind and slow down. YMMV, but one more thing to try. Let gravity do the work.

It's pretty obvious in this clip:



First reload I'm trying to guide the moon clip all the way in. It's a bad reload. Second one I let it drop a little, and its smoother. Last one I'm having to reload an extra time for a make up shot and I just drop it in a hurry...and it was my fastest reload.

It's counterintuitive and hard to do, but once you start dropping them I think you'll find your reloads start to get smoother.

On the flip side I once got a casing stuck in the cylinder and slipped under the star on a Model 10 in the middle of a stage. I think that was a 15-20 second reload by the time I managed to get the case out of the cylinder, get it out sideways from under the star, and get my speed loader back in action? I'd personally take guaranteed ejection with moons even if I was slower with them than speed loaders on the reload....casings under stars are....less than fun. :biggrinjester:
Thanks for the suggestions. Right now, the only moon clips I’ve tried loading are the S&W clips that come with the gun. The only cartridges I’ve tried to load into those moon clips are a few rounds of a cheap .38 Special RNFMJ that came with the gun when I bought it (from Carlson), and Hornady 125 grain Critical Defense FTX, which is my chosen .357 carry load in other revolvers.

My observation is that the first round loads into the clip fairly easily, and it gets progressively more difficult with each one. By the 8th round, I just can’t get it to snap into place, and the force required to do it appears to overwhelm the stiffness of the polymer loading tool, causing it to bend under the pressure instead of forcing the cartridge into place. This phenomenon is true with both kinds of cartridges. They’ll all fit in the clip individually, but not as an 8-round set. My working theory is that it isn’t the relationship of thickness of the clip to the size of the groove above the rim that’s at issue. Rather, the clip loses a portion of its flexibility between the flanges as each round is snapped into its place around the clip, until there isn’t enough flexibility left in the material to allow the flanges on either side of the 8th hole to be spread far enough apart to accommodate snapping in the 8th cartridge. Ironically, the removal tool snaps the cartridges out of the clip with very little problem.

I am researching polymer moon clips.
Give me Liberty, or I'll get up and get it myself.—Hookalakah Meshobbab
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Re: Getting cylinder cut for moon clips

#11

Post by 74novaman » Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:19 pm

If loading them is the problem, you might try some speedbeez moon clips. They're easier to load than anything else I've tried (also a little more "floppy" when loaded, but they still can be loaded quickly).

I don't know what moon clip loading tool you're using. I'm using a TK Custom moon clip loader which is all metal and it works well.

Moon clips can be finicky when it comes to loading, unloading, what ammo fits what clips, etc. But if you can find a combo that works well, they're great.
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Re: Getting cylinder cut for moon clips

#12

Post by The Annoyed Man » Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:32 pm

74novaman wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:19 pm
If loading them is the problem, you might try some speedbeez moon clips. They're easier to load than anything else I've tried (also a little more "floppy" when loaded, but they still can be loaded quickly).

I don't know what moon clip loading tool you're using. I'm using a TK Custom moon clip loader which is all metal and it works well.

Moon clips can be finicky when it comes to loading, unloading, what ammo fits what clips, etc. But if you can find a combo that works well, they're great.
Cool, thanks. I don’t remember the brand of moon clip loader that I have, but it also came with the gun when I bought it. I don’t have it right here in front of me at the moment to check the name. But I’m going to buy that TK Custom loader. It looks like it would fix my problem. I haven’t mic'd out the thickness of the S&W clips, but to the extent that I can load them, they hold the rounds pretty securely. I could live with a little floppiness if I had to, if it meant that I could load the clip more easily. I actually love the TRR8 pistol. It shoots very well, and without too much recoil despite being a lighter scandium framed gun. The frustration with the moon clips is the main reason I haven’t tried to carry it out in the real world yet. I haven’t yet been able to load a single one with the full 8 rounds yet, let alone 2 or 3 spares. I finally just ended up buying a couple of 5-Star Fireams 8N-357/38 Speed Loaders. But like you mentioned above, there’s always the risk of getting a case head stuck under the star, and if that happened during a real defensive shooting, you’d be in real trouble. So if I can get moon clips to work for me, I agree that would be better.

Thanks again for sharing what you’ve learned. Please tell me I’m not the only one who’s had to go through this learning curve with 8 round moon clips! :lol:
Give me Liberty, or I'll get up and get it myself.—Hookalakah Meshobbab
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Re: Getting cylinder cut for moon clips

#13

Post by Rob72 » Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:28 am

TK is very good, but IMHO, pretty over-priced. I have a stack of Revolver Supply's SS 9mm clips and their tool, and am EXTREMELY satisfied. My conversion is a bit different in that the tolerance stacking between case rim thickness, primer seating depth and moon clip thickness really define my moon clip selection, then my ammo choices. Different brands of ammo will definitely have different diameters immediately below the rim, but less so than with rimless cartridges. Your last 1-2 rounds, regardless, will probably go in with some "snap!"

https://www.revolversupply.com/moon-clips/

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Re: Getting cylinder cut for moon clips

#14

Post by 74novaman » Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:48 am

The Annoyed Man wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:32 pm

Thanks again for sharing what you’ve learned. Please tell me I’m not the only one who’s had to go through this learning curve with 8 round moon clips! :lol:
It's a huge learning curve, and I've done plenty of trial and error myself.

heck, TK has this on their website:

Image

That's just how some ammo interacts with their moon clips. Add in different ammo, different moon clip manufacturers....ooh boy.
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Re: Getting cylinder cut for moon clips

#15

Post by The Annoyed Man » Wed Aug 14, 2019 12:46 pm

74novaman wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:48 am
The Annoyed Man wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:32 pm

Thanks again for sharing what you’ve learned. Please tell me I’m not the only one who’s had to go through this learning curve with 8 round moon clips! :lol:
It's a huge learning curve, and I've done plenty of trial and error myself.

heck, TK has this on their website:

Image

That's just how some ammo interacts with their moon clips. Add in different ammo, different moon clip manufacturers....ooh boy.
I saw that graphic last night. I take it the boxes with green ticks in the upper left hand corner indicate which clip is optimal for which ammo?
Give me Liberty, or I'll get up and get it myself.—Hookalakah Meshobbab
I don't carry because of the odds, I carry because of the stakes.—The Annoyed Boy
My dream is to have lived my life so well that future generations of leftists will demand my name be removed from buildings.

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