S&W Mod 19 a big surprise

[Chickenman]

I've never considered shooting anything else but 1911s. Not long ago I purchased a Mod 19 in 357. Shot 12 rounds and enjoyed the heck out of it.

Very accurate but double action very foreign to me. Question: What is the best personal defense ammo for this weapon?

Funny thing- I loaded the 357 before bed and not my 1911. It can make some noise

[seamusTX]

One thing about the .357 Magnum: The muzzle flash in the dark is blinding to the shooter. Do you have an opportunity to shoot in the dark?

- Jim

[Chickenman]

yes- I guess I should try it and see what you are talking about

[G.C.Montgomery]

The amount of muzzle flash you'll see out of a .357Mag revolver very much depends on the ammunition and barrel length. My father carried a 4-inch, Model 19 on duty with HPD from 1962 to his retirement in 1994. I "borrowed" that revolver a couple years back to take with me to DPS and I've probably put more rounds through that gun in the last two years than he did in the previous 40. I too was impressed at just how enjoyable the old K-frames are to shoot. IMHO, muzzle flash really isn't much of a concern except when I run heavier 158-180 grain loads.

I personally like 125 grain loads from Speer (Gold Dot) and Remington (Golden Saber). And I tend to prefer this load in all my .357Mag revolvers. Right now, I own a Model 28 Highway Patrolman with a six-inch barrel, a 4-inch Model 620, and the aforementioned Model 19. With all these guns, the only time I see significant muzzle flash is with heavier loads. But the other thing I see with heavy loads is a little bit of flame-cutting (more on older frames than newer one) and so I tend to stick with the lighter loads across the board.

[carlson1]

I would not put a lot of .357 magnum rounds through a K frame Smith. It has a tendency to effect the timing.

[flintknapper]

The amount of muzzle flash you'll see out of a .357Mag revolver very much depends on the ammunition and barrel length. My father carried a 4-inch, Model 19 on duty with HPD from 1962 to his retirement in 1994. I "borrowed" that revolver a couple years back to take with me to DPS and I've probably put more rounds through that gun in the last two years than he did in the previous 40. I too was impressed at just how enjoyable the old K-frames are to shoot. IMHO, muzzle flash really isn't much of a concern except when I run heavier 158-180 grain loads.

I personally like 125 grain loads from Speer (Gold Dot) and Remington (Golden Saber). And I tend to prefer this load in all my .357Mag revolvers. Right now, I own a Model 28 Highway Patrolman with a six-inch barrel, a 4-inch Model 620, and the aforementioned Model 19. With all these guns, the only time I see significant muzzle flash is with heavier loads. But the other thing I see with heavy loads is a little bit of flame-cutting (more on older frames than newer one) and so I tend to stick with the lighter loads across the board.

My very first centerfire pistol was a Model 19 Combat Magnum. I loved the way it looked, felt, shot, etc.

Only problem was....in less than 200 rounds of full house .357 (125gr.) the forcing cone cracked at the 6 O'Clock position.

Took it back to the store I bought it from. They sent it back to Smith and called me when it was repaired. I shot quite a few .38's out of it...then tried some .357 again. Well......once again the forcing cone split.

Gun store took it back, issued me a new one (new paperwork) and told me it wouldn't stand up to a steady diet of hot .357

Just being a dumb 21 year old...I didn't ask why it said "357" on the gun if I couldn't shoot them out of it without damaging it, but I certainly wondered.

Kept the pistol a few months and then traded it for a Ruger Super Blackhawk, put a couple trillion rounds through that thing.

Anyway, thats my Model 19 rant...some 30 years after the fact.

[ELB]

Chickenman,

125 grain JHPs have been the traditional trademark defense ammo for the .357 Magnum. S&W Model 19 lore has it that one should shoot magnum ammo sparingly, as the K-frame is really more of a .38 Special frame with a .357 cylinder wedged in. Bill Jordan is supposed to be the daddy of the Model 19, talked S&W into making it for police work, and it was long the preeminent police sidearm. Do some internet searches and keep your eyes on the gun magazines, the history of the Model 19 is revisited pretty regularly. The Model 19 reigned when many advocated practicing with .38 Specials and carrying Magnum rounds. That's fallen from favor these days.

One day I went out and compared Hornady 125 grain XTP/JHPs in .357 Mag, fired out of my 4 inch barrel Model 19, to Hornady 124 grain XTP/JHPs in .357 Sig, fired out of my approx 4 inch barrel FN Hi Power. Interestingly, I chronographed the .357 Sig round as being slightly faster than the .357 Mag round (1361 fps, SD=4 vs 1340, SD=14). Penetration into wetpack was effectively the same, and the recovered bullets looked identical. I wrote this up with some pictures here (you have to scroll down thru some posts to get to the .357 data):

http://www.handgunsandammo.proboards36. ... 1175234765

The Model 19 definitely won the flash and bang contest. Sharp recoil, LOUD CRACK, big flash, at least by my perceptions. My dog agreed. He watched me shoot a .357 Sig from the front porch about 30-40 yards away. When I switched to the .357 round, he got up and went around to the other side of the house.

As far as brands of ammo, all the big boy ammo producers make decent .357 rounds, especially in the 125 grain category. I have not personally experimented with Cor-Bon DPX in this caliber, but people I have confidence in swear by Cor-Bon DPX as a defensive round in every caliber it is made.

I love the Model 19 -- it was the first handgun I really learned to shoot, and I think the 4 inch model has excellent balance and just looks great. With 125 gr JHPs you would be well armed, but you will need to learn the control the recoil if you want fast followup shots. I found Hogue grips to work well for me when I shot it with magnum rounds.

Enjoy it. No more Model 19s are being made.

elb

[MoJo]

I am a 125gr JHP .357 Mag. fan myself. If you find that the recoil is too much, or follow up shots are too difficult then try the WWB 110gr JHP .357 load. The Golden Saber load is a "Medium velocity" load that some find easier to shoot. Don't forget there are a bunch of excellent .38 Spl. +P and +P+ loads out there too that are street proven.

A good deal on full house 125gr ammo is the 100 pack of UMC 125gr JHP available at WalMart.

[G.C.Montgomery]

My very first centerfire pistol was a Model 19 Combat Magnum. I loved the way it looked, felt, shot, etc.

Only problem was....in less than 200 rounds of full house .357 (125gr.) the forcing cone cracked at the 6 O'Clock position.

Took it back to the store I bought it from. They sent it back to Smith and called me when it was repaired. I shot quite a few .38's out of it...then tried some .357 again. Well......once again the forcing cone split.

Gun store took it back, issued me a new one (new paperwork) and told me it wouldn't stand up to a steady diet of hot .357

Just being a dumb 21 year old...I didn't ask why it said "357" on the gun if I couldn't shoot them out of it without damaging it, but I certainly wondered.

Kept the pistol a few months and then traded it for a Ruger Super Blackhawk, put a couple trillion rounds through that thing.

Anyway, thats my Model 19 rant...some 30 years after the fact.

Well, we should remember the K-Frame was NEVER designed or intended for .357Magnum loads. S&W finally recognized this and gave us the L-Frame guns. I don't shoot the Model 19 much anymore because I prefer the 620 but I still think the Model 19/66 is probably one of the fastest revolvers I've ever shot. I take it easy on my Dad's old Model 19 because I worry that I could wreck it as wrecked the timing and trigger pin in my first S&W revolver, a Model 10.

[KBCraig]

The Model 19 definitely won the flash and bang contest. Sharp recoil, LOUD CRACK, big flash, at least by my perceptions. My dog agreed. He watched me shoot a .357 Sig from the front porch about 30-40 yards away. When I switched to the .357 round, he got up and went around to the other side of the house.

Simple physics. All that energy has to go somewhere, and in the revolver, there are no springs and slide movement to absorb any of it. With muzzle energy roughly equivalent, the chamber energy that doesn't get used in cycling the action has to wind up as either recoil or flash/bang.

[Thane]

The cracked forcing cone is not an unheard of problem in Model 19s. A brief internet search for "model 19 cracked forcing cone" turned up this, and this.

General consensus seems to be that top-loaded 125-grain ammunition is worst for the forcing cone.

[ELB]

Simple physics. All that energy has to go somewhere, and in the revolver, there are no springs and slide movement to absorb any of it. With muzzle energy roughly equivalent, the chamber energy that doesn't get used in cycling the action has to wind up as either recoil or flash/bang.

I directly compared the .357 Sig and the .357 Mag with bullet weights/types as identical as possible because I had heard others talk about how loud the .357 Sig was. I didn't notice the .357 Sig round as being particularly loud. It didn't seem that different form the .40 S&W I fired from the same gun (different barrel, of course). The .357 Mag is definitely the hairy thunderer of the two.

That said, I don't recall other .357 Magnum bullet weights having quite the same crack/flash/snap that the 125 does, but it has been awhile since I have fired them. I do wonder if the cylinder gap contributes to the noise level.

In any case, I think Chickenman should go easy on the magnum rounds in his Model 19 -- shoot enough to be comfortable, but if going to shoot a lot, go with .38Specials or less powerful magnum rounds. I know some people load their own .357 mag practice rounds with less oomph so as not to incur spalling in the cylinder chambers from the shorter .38 rounds.

elb

[pedalman]

I realize this is an older thread, but I have one of these Model 19 revolvers. It belonged to my late father-in-law. His son bought it for him years ago.

The FIL fired 4 rounds of 38 Spl 158g LRN through, cleaned it, and put it away (he preferred long guns to handguns). I have it now, still with the original box, manual, and tools that came with it. This is practically a new gun

I just bought a Hogue Monogrip for it (never did understand the odd grip design S&W put on their revolvers). I don't plan on putting a lot of 357 Mags through it. I'm betting that this wheelgun should be fun to shoot with 38 Spl and 38 Spl +P.

If I want big boom in a revolver, I'll shoot my 8" Dan Wesson 357 SuperMag.

[alibatesknapper]

I have shot several hundred rounds of 357mag through my S&W md19-7 combat with 2" barrel and never had a problem. Its one of my favorite guns. Don't know what grain I mostly shot but was what ever was cheaper I think. I bought mine right before they quit making them and it came with the rubber grips. Just checked the forcing cone and it still looks new. Don't shoot it much anymore but I do keep it loaded and beside my recliner while I watch tv.

[HankH]

The model 19 and its stainless brother, the model 66, was "THE" gun to have, as a lawman in the 1970s and 80s. Then, most of those were carried and seldom fired. The .38 wadcutter, for practice and the .357 for duty. As I recall, the 158 grain were the most common and the 110 and 125 were the upcoming loads from Super Vel and not presented, at the time, from the usual manufacturers.

As everything else changes, with time, one must use good judgement in matching loads with the gun. I would not shoot +P rounds in a modern J frame, for practice. Instead I would use 158 grain Cowboy loads, as they are light and of the same weight I would want in a +P business load. The same holds for a K frame .357. Why punish the gun and yourself by pushing full house loads to punch paper?

I have never tried a J frame .357, though I have seen them in the store. I have tried a .410 in a derringer, chambered for .45/410 and I do not care to do this again. No, I will keep my model 19 and use light loads for practice.