Plain clothes LEO open carry question

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Flatland2D
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Plain clothes LEO open carry question

#1

Post by Flatland2D » Thu Dec 11, 2008 10:16 pm

Today when I was out at lunch at the Wendy's in San Marcos, two plain clothes LEO's came in that were open carrying and dressed business casual. My co-worker and I both eyed these guys for ID's or badges and we did not see any. Do plain clothes LEO's have to display a badge when carrying open?

With the absence of the badge, I'm really just assuming these guys were LEO's. They could just be two guys with the guts to open carry and no one would say anything about it (though I know that's highly unlikely). When they left, they drove off in an unmarked car.
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Re: Plain clothes LEO open carry question

#2

Post by atxgun » Thu Dec 11, 2008 10:23 pm

I'm sure someone that has the code related to this bookmarked will post it.

But maybe that's the ticket if one wanted to open carry. Just slap on a novelty CHL badge and everyone will assume it's legit.

Edit: That last statement was a complete joke, in case anyone were to take it seriously.

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Re: Plain clothes LEO open carry question

#3

Post by iratollah » Thu Dec 11, 2008 10:33 pm

Two ways you could have found out if they were police. You could have called 911 about two guys with guns in a fast food restaurant. Or you could have walked up to them and asked which one was the husband. :reddevil
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Re: Plain clothes LEO open carry question

#4

Post by srothstein » Thu Dec 11, 2008 10:53 pm

And the answer to your question is that there is no requirement for police to even have a badge, let alone display it while carrying a weapon. PC.46.02 just does not apply to police officers, so there is no law about them carrying, openly or concealed, on or off duty.

I would bet they were in town for the funeral today. One report I heard said over 1000 people (not officers, but citizens) attended Sheriff Bridges funeral. I know some of our San Marcos agents did attend.
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Re: Plain clothes LEO open carry question

#5

Post by Flatland2D » Thu Dec 11, 2008 10:56 pm

iratollah wrote:Two ways you could have found out if they were police. You could have called 911 about two guys with guns in a fast food restaurant. Or you could have walked up to them and asked which one was the husband. :reddevil
I'll have to remember that one for next time. :thumbs2:

I considered asking one of them about what the law says about them displaying ID when carrying, but realized I would come across like a jerk if I called them out on breaking the rules.
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Re: Plain clothes LEO open carry question

#6

Post by Flatland2D » Thu Dec 11, 2008 11:00 pm

srothstein wrote:And the answer to your question is that there is no requirement for police to even have a badge, let alone display it while carrying a weapon. PC.46.02 just does not apply to police officers, so there is no law about them carrying, openly or concealed, on or off duty.

I would bet they were in town for the funeral today. One report I heard said over 1000 people (not officers, but citizens) attended Sheriff Bridges funeral. I know some of our San Marcos agents did attend.
Thank you Steve for the definitive answer. I would have suspected that they were probably following the rules, but I do find it a bit odd that a LEO doesn't have to display a badge when carrying to distinguish them from a "man with a gun".
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Re: Plain clothes LEO open carry question

#7

Post by Liberty » Fri Dec 12, 2008 7:35 am

This is odd, I thought if the unbadged showed up open carrying people would be fainting in the streets and 911 calls would be made and silent alarms pulled.
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Re: Plain clothes LEO open carry question

#8

Post by Excaliber » Fri Dec 12, 2008 7:43 am

Liberty wrote:This is odd, I thought if the unbadged showed up open carrying people would be fainting in the streets and 911 calls would be made and silent alarms pulled.
Another reason why I love Texas.

In the wimpified and thoroughly brainwashed areas like San Fran and Chicago, they'd still be hauling out all the folks who had keeled over from coronaries at the site of a weapon on the person of someone who wasn't in uniform.

It's amazing what conditioning can do.
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Re: Plain clothes LEO open carry question

#9

Post by flintknapper » Fri Dec 12, 2008 8:02 am

Liberty wrote:This is odd, I thought if the unbadged showed up open carrying people would be fainting in the streets and 911 calls would be made and silent alarms pulled.
Or start putting up 30.06 signs.

The plain fact is, folks didn't notice, or didn't care.....
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Re: Plain clothes LEO open carry question

#10

Post by Abraham » Fri Dec 12, 2008 10:11 am

I wonder how an LEO, without observable I.D., but openly carrying, is understood to be one as observed by an another, uninformed LEO?

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Re: Plain clothes LEO open carry question

#11

Post by Excaliber » Fri Dec 12, 2008 10:38 am

Abraham wrote:I wonder how an LEO, without observable I.D., but openly carrying, is understood to be one as observed by an another, uninformed LEO?
While a positive ID of an openly armed plainclothes officer wouldn't be possible without checking credentials, there are a lot of nonverbal cues that an officer would look for and recognize. Under the "If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, more than likely it's a duck" evaluation process, an officer would know whether or not there's a real good possibility and would proceed accordingly.

This works the same way as the way serious bad guys and cops who have never met can recognize each other's status on sight probably 85% of the time regardless of where they are or how they are dressed.

Some believe that the mechanism is unconscious recognition of subtle visual cues that folks without extensive contact with the criminal culture miss. Others attribute it to the "woo woo" factor. In any case I've seen enough instances that I can personally verify that it works.
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Re: Plain clothes LEO open carry question

#12

Post by Geopagus » Fri Dec 12, 2008 12:15 pm

Departmental policy may restrict how plain clothes officers carry while on duty or off duty for that matter.

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Re: Plain clothes LEO open carry question

#13

Post by DoubleJ » Fri Dec 12, 2008 12:22 pm

uh, what's the "woo-woo" factor?
FWIW, IIRC, AFAIK, FTMP, IANAL. YMMV.

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Re: Plain clothes LEO open carry question

#14

Post by Excaliber » Fri Dec 12, 2008 12:28 pm

DoubleJ wrote:uh, what's the "woo-woo" factor?
Sorry for the confusion - I haven't heard it commonly used in Texas.

It's a street term for what some folks might call extra sensory perception, spiritual sight, or something similar.
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Re: Plain clothes LEO open carry question

#15

Post by DoubleJ » Fri Dec 12, 2008 12:30 pm

Spidey Senses.
I gotcha. thanks.
FWIW, IIRC, AFAIK, FTMP, IANAL. YMMV.

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