New .380 (Diamondback)

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Re: New .380 (Diamondback)

#61

Post by RPB »

Lumberjack98 wrote:
havoc wrote:Adam, I for one appreciate you posting your experiences, both good and bad, with this new gun. I do not care how much money you have or have not spent on it or any other firearm or anythinge else.... Your review has helped those of us who have seen this gun, and may or may not be interested it obtaining one, make a better informed decision for ourselves. So, thank you again for your review and I still look forward to any additional reviews, thoughts, and feelings you have about the Diamondback be they pro or con. Please keep us informed. :patriot:
:iagree:
:iagree:

Adam, I really appreciate your reviews Thanks

I polished the feed ramp and oiled the guide rod and spring on mine now too.

My local shooting range closes during deer hunting season, (small town) so I haven't put 1 round through mine yet, I may if I visit another city some day soon...... hopefully I can break it and get a free magazine too (kidding)

It was an easy decision for me between the DB380, LCP and P3AT, I only have 1 hand and have way too many guns that require some "extra thing" bullet casing or pin punch or such to disassemble them, and I got tired of it. So, after I held one, it was an easy decision.

I use a Bianchi IWB suede holster. Must be aware of fallout if dropping pants in restrooms, but I've never worn anything more comfortable than the DB380. I just finished eating Thanksgiving dinner at the local Catholic Church, and almost forgot I had it on, until I was about to loosen my belt (big meal)

I have Winchester Silvertips 85gr, in it now, but may switch to Fereral Hydroshok 90 gr or maybe to CarBon +P+ 90gr 1050fps but most likely to Buffalo Bore +P. 90gr 1175fps 267FT LBS (small town, I can get/or have ammo, and have those and some others)

I carry another gun usually too (I usually carrry at 2 or 3 guns anyway)
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Re: New .380 (Diamondback)

#62

Post by adam71176 »

Here we go again.
Apparently my Diamondback misses it's creators so much that it can't stand to be outside of Florida for more than a couple of days.

After a good run with her I had her at the range last Tuesday evening, loaded her up, 1st round went BANG and then on the next round the trigger keeps lightly clicking, not a light strike as I thought it might be, but simply the trigger is not actuating the striker/firing mechanism. Mind you this is a DAO and the trigger should go limp after a misfire, but it keeps clicking this little light click. I dropped the mag, cleared the chamber and tried like crazy to field strip it. Took me about 5 minutes of tinkering to get it open. I inspected it, everything looked fine so I cleaned it, oiled it and re-assembled it. And guess what, 1st round BANG and then more clicking. Took it apart again, had my gunsmith take a look and he said it looked OK so, one last try and 1st round BANG and the darn trigger bar snapped again, exactly like the week before.

Sent an email to DB Tuesday night and spoke with them 1st thing Wednesday morning. Of course they sent me another overnight label for return, but I spoke with their armorer briefly and he swore up and down to me that mine is the only DB in which the trigger bar has snapped and that clearly something else is going on...

I was told the gun would be basically stripped, measured for tolerances and re-built or I would be provided with a new DB entirely. I thanked him politely and began my search for a new pocket gun...

I'm sure there are those of you out there who can feel my pain/frustration at this point. I honestly don't know what I'm going to do when I get the DB back, I'm not really in the mood to feed it anymore, but I also love the look and feel of this gun (feel free to joke all you Glock haters ;-) ).

I don't really know what to tell anyone about the Diamondback other than to continue to be honest about what is going on with my particular gun, so that's that.

You can find my other thread on the Kahr P380 here on the board, I was able to track one down and feel really good about it.
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Re: New .380 (Diamondback)

#63

Post by Embalmo »

Guys,

I'm a firm believer that a new gun often can have bugs that need to be sorted out, and then it'll be perfectly fine; kinda' like a new car. That was true with the first generation LCP, and the famous disconnector spring issue with the Bersa .380 that I encountered. I'm also a firm believer that all guns have their share of lemons.

With the exact thing going wrong after warranty work, however, this sounds like a serious design flaw. This gun is officially on my "do not buy list". I am, however, curious to see what the future holds for this company. Who knows, 10 years from now they may be the next Taurus, or even Bersa.

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Re: New .380 (Diamondback)

#64

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I think it's a bit early to say "design" flaw, design looks great, but perhaps a materials defect.
A "design" flaw would be more like the first Generation extractors on Kel-tec P3AT maybe, or LCPs accidently discharging, or Toyota designing gas pedals too close to the floormats. A materials defect would be like using a poor grade of steel or steel that wasn't tempered properly so the trigger bar gets brittle maybe. Meanwhile, I may order a couple spare trigger bars, and carry my 1st Gen AMT backup .380 too, about the same size, but heavier, I sold my AMT .380 DAO, didn't care for it's trigger as much as the 1st Generation with grip safety etc..
I'll still keep my DB380, even if it is determined that that 1 part, trigger bar, needs replacing every so many rounds, like the $1,000 Rohrbach Spring replacement after every few boxes of ammo/every 250 rounds etc.
Last edited by RPB on Mon Nov 30, 2009 5:34 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: New .380 (Diamondback)

#65

Post by adam71176 »

RPB wrote:I think it's a bit early to say "design" flaw, but perhaps a materials defect.
A "design" flaw would be more like the first Generation extractors on Kel-tec P3AT maybe, or LCPs accidently discharging, or Toyota designing gas pedals too close to the floormats. A materials defect would be like using a poor grade of steel or steel that wasn't tempered properly so the trigger bar gets brittle maybe.
I'll keep mine, even if it is determined that that 1 part, trigger bar, needs replacing every so many rounds, like the $1,000 Rohrbach Spring replacement after every few boxes of ammo/every 250 rounds etc.
Well Put! :iagree:

And as distrustful as I may be about certain things or people, I trusted this guy and do believe that the trigger bar is a secondary issue with this particular gun, something else is out of spec on it. That is not to say that I trust that they will fix it properly or that it will be a good gun long term, just that the guy at DB was being honest and really wanted to figure it out.
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Re: New .380 (Diamondback)

#66

Post by RPB »

Glad that Kahr 380 is working for you so far .... I considered it, but I owned a CW40, and hot-potatoed it out in trade for a Glock 27 .... didn't like the Kahr CW40 at all personally, but I do understand that the CW40 was their "low-end" model. Just reminded me when I bought a Chevy Vega, yellow, like a lemon, then wouldn't buy another Chevy for 20 years or so, and the next one I got was a fantastic car. I may give Kahr a second chance some day.

I trust my AMT 1st Gen (SA) 380 backup, it's been flawless since 1989 or so, forgot how long I've had it lol, but I didn't care for their later model (the DAO)
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Re: New .380 (Diamondback)

#67

Post by Embalmo »

Guys,

I will agree, it's a very attractive gun, but Installing a backup trigger bar, and clearing a jam in a SD situation just seems a little time consuming when they do make guns that require neither. I just can't accept that good handguns jam and break consistently; I'm even considering making a poll to see how reliable member's daily carry are. I suspect that most members are like me and seldomly experience such maladies. Opinions can be can be volleyed back and forth, but in the end it's about "bang bang", or "click click".

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Re: New .380 (Diamondback)

#68

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Embalmo wrote:Guys,

I will agree, it's a very attractive gun, but Installing a backup trigger bar, and clearing a jam in a SD situation just seems a little time consuming when they do make guns that require neither. I just can't accept that good handguns jam and break consistently; I'm even considering making a poll to see how reliable member's daily carry are. I suspect that most members are like me and seldomly experience such maladies. Opinions can be can be volleyed back and forth, but in the end it's about "bang bang", or "click click".

Embalmo
Before buying the DB380, I almost got an LCP, because of the slide stop benefit (for disassembly etc) over the P3AT (Kahr also has a slide stop), except the LCPs were going "bang" when people didn't want them to, and reading reports of broken parts on P3ATs, along with prior experience with Grendels 380. And especially because the P3AT and LCP and Kahr, like my AMT backup, require a separate "tool" to disassemble them, which is a real chore if you have use of only one hand. I really miss my PPk/s .380 (Original German made stainless) which was stolen, I'd have replaced it, except the new Smith & Wesson ones, made under Walther's name, were all recalled.

I'll just give it time, I mean there are reports everywhere concerning every gun like:

"kel tec 380, nothing but problems. ...

and

"Picked a (Kahr) P380 last week. Cleaned and oiled as always. Attempted to run 220 rounds through it. Probably 40 failures. Wont feed, wont extract. Name it"

and

"problems with newer Bersa Thunder380 kicking the disconnector spring off and rendering the gun totally useless "

and

"Well gun (LCP) came back from Ruger for the second time and hit the range.
After roughly 50 rounds the firing pin broke. This will be it's third trip to Ruger.
I have decided this gun is not fit for carry, defense, or anything for that matter. It is far too unreliable to trust to your life. "

I think ANY manufacturer may have a manufacturing problem or two in the beginning, but I'll stick with what I consider a superior design of my DB380.
Last edited by RPB on Tue Dec 01, 2009 8:56 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: New .380 (Diamondback)

#69

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RPB wrote: I think any manufacturer may have a manufacturing problem or two in the beginning, but I'll stick with what I consider a superior design of my DB380
Not only that, but many guns have consistent problems even after "the beginning" and are still mostly reliable guns once you get the kinks worked out.

The fact that this particular new gun is coming out in the peak of the age of whining on internet forums means that you will know about every user's little problem before you buy one for yourself. But when Glock first started importing guns into the USA we didn't have this kind of thing going on. So maybe they had the same kinds of problems but we just didn't hear about it. If you go old school and just listen to the reports of gun shop owners, well there are those who still think that S&W Sigmas are junk that never work and that Kahrs are "made by the moonies". So, you know, their information may well be a little bit out of date.

I think the internet factor is one huge reason why so many people are skeptical of Kel-Tec firearms. The P3AT came out and was received by a forum full of gun tinkerers who had no problem publicly picking apart every little tiny defect. When you sell guns to geeks and tinkerers, you know they are going to take them apart and figure out what could be improved. I think the demographic of owners is a much more important factor than the actual quality of the gun.

I'm a guy who owns a pistol that's been back to the factory three times, and I carry it every day without question and would buy another one in a heartbeat. It's a superior design and works extremely well for me. I know the design of that gun like the back of my hand and can tell when it is working right and when it is not. I trust it because I am confident that the problem it had was one of tolerances that was fixed by replacing nearly the entire gun. Yeah, it's a QC problem for sure, but it's not a design flaw, unless you are talking about the design of the manufacturing process.

Snapping the trigger bar every couple of hundred rounds does indeed sound like a major problem and without an explanation that reveals a sensible defect in the particular pistol and assurance that it is properly fixed, I would be quite skeptical of the repaired gun. But overall if they can work out the design in that form-factor, I think the DB looks like a really solid contender.

I really do hope the DB works out for you guys and they get these issues worked out so that they can consistently produce a reliable little pistol. That's because I'd like to buy one :)
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Re: New .380 (Diamondback)

#70

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I still believe this is a case of a one off Lemon. It happens with all brands and types of products as has been stated here before. I just got off the phone with Diamondback and they said that several items are off spec on my S/N (only the 312th produced) and they are simply building me a new gun and shipping it to me tomorrow. Again, I'm not really apt to spend hundreds of dollars re testing, especially since I got my Kahr and really like it, but I think I'll be holding on to it for a while and see how it does over time. I have read a lot of very positive posts on the DB on other forums and reviews and do tend to think that I just happened to receive a bad one.

RPB, I certainly hope that yours runs well for you when you finally get the chance to test her out.

:thumbs2: for customer service!
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Re: New .380 (Diamondback)

#71

Post by Embalmo »

mr.72 wrote:Snapping the trigger bar every couple of hundred rounds does indeed sound like a major problem...I think the DB looks like a really solid contender.
:iagree:
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Re: New .380 (Diamondback)

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Guys,

It would not surprise me if the future reviews for the DB .380 put in on a higher reliability shelf than the LCP. Clark Howard often says that you can read a favorable consumer report on Hyundais based on a study of 1,000,000 cars, but if your neighbor has a lemon, you'll never buy one.

"This will be it's third trip to Ruger.I have decided this gun is not fit for carry, defense, or anything for that matter. It is far too unreliable to trust to your life. " This is DEAD ON! Only a fool would trust his life to an unreliable LCP like this; I do not have blind faith in ANY brand of firearm.

The problem I have is if I were an absolute beginner, this thread would make me believe that it's OK for auto handguns to consistently jam, and break. And the .380 round is inherently jam prone because it isn't powerful enough to push the slide back to cycle its operation, as a member in this feed wrote, "...as I believe what was happening is that the low pressure of the .380 was not quite enough to fully send the slide backwards." My bottom line is: Auto handguns, specifically .380s are very reliable, and don't trust your life to an unreliable gun, no matter how pretty it is, how much money you've spent on it, or what name brand it is; It's all about "bang bang", or "click click". This thread may single handedly turn the whole world off auto handguns.

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Re: New .380 (Diamondback)

#73

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Yeah, my LCP has been flawless for a good 700 rounds or more. It has feed everything I've given it, including HP and and flat-nosed SP. I only wish I could find some .380 to feed it any more. Poor thing needs some exercise from riding around in my pocket.

There are some drawbacks on the gun, but functionality has never been on of them for me. The long trigger pull is really my only complaint. Some people hate the sights, though they don't really bother me. It's also quite comfortable for me to shoot, though this is apparently subjective, as most people seem to hate shooting the LCP.

As for the DB, I won't discount it completely, but I'll be cautious about getting one until the issues described here can be suitable addressed.
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Re: New .380 (Diamondback)

#74

Post by Embalmo »

NcongruNt wrote:Yeah, my LCP has been flawless for a good 700 rounds or more. It has feed everything I've given it, including HP and and flat-nosed SP. I only wish I could find some .380 to feed it any more. Poor thing needs some exercise from riding around in my pocket.

There are some drawbacks on the gun, but functionality has never been on of them for me. The long trigger pull is really my only complaint. Some people hate the sights, though they don't really bother me. It's also quite comfortable for me to shoot, though this is apparently subjective, as most people seem to hate shooting the LCP.

As for the DB, I won't discount it completely, but I'll be cautious about getting one until the issues described here can be suitable addressed.
:iagree:

This is weird-It's like we are the same person with the same gun. I agree with, and have experienced every word you've said. I've been told recently that I'm one of the lucky few, but I think we are of the majority of LCP owners.
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Re: New .380 (Diamondback)

#75

Post by adam71176 »

Embalmo wrote:Guys,

It would not surprise me if the future reviews for the DB .380 put in on a higher reliability shelf than the LCP. Clark Howard often says that you can read a favorable consumer report on Hyundais based on a study of 1,000,000 cars, but if your neighbor has a lemon, you'll never buy one.

"This will be it's third trip to Ruger.I have decided this gun is not fit for carry, defense, or anything for that matter. It is far too unreliable to trust to your life. " This is DEAD ON! Only a fool would trust his life to an unreliable LCP like this; I do not have blind faith in ANY brand of firearm.

The problem I have is if I were an absolute beginner, this thread would make me believe that it's OK for auto handguns to consistently jam, and break. And the .380 round is inherently jam prone because it isn't powerful enough to push the slide back to cycle its operation, as a member in this feed wrote, "...as I believe what was happening is that the low pressure of the .380 was not quite enough to fully send the slide backwards." My bottom line is: Auto handguns, specifically .380s are very reliable, and don't trust your life to an unreliable gun, no matter how pretty it is, how much money you've spent on it, or what name brand it is; It's all about "bang bang", or "click click". This thread may single handedly turn the whole world off auto handguns.

Embalmo
I have to say that this one, out of all of the posts on this topic confused me the most and I am truly just looking for clarification.

1st you say that it wouldn't' surprise you if the Diamondback ended up being more reliable as a whole than the LCP which you yourself carry. Then you take a quote from somewhere stating that an LCP is taking it's 3rd trip back to Ruger. And thirdly you state that .380 autos are very reliable.

My response to this is that your probably right on the 1st statement, a new gun company with what appears to be a totally new design is bringing to market a firearm that may very well have much higher overall and long-term reliability than either KT or Ruger, both of which are known to be, as a group, plagued with issues. Everyone who's ever seen an LCP knows that Ruger clearly copied the KT design and apparently did little or nothing to improve upon it. Not to say that your LCP is not perfect in every way, it may very well be, and I believe what you say, but as a former owner of 2 of them I can tell you that my experience does not match up with yours, and I have also been the oh so pleased owner of a total Lemon KT, of which KT was neither quick to help remedy the situation, actually fix the gun, or treat me a decent human being.

I don't know where your quote about an LCP going back to Ruger three times came from but it is just one of literally hundreds of similar stories regarding the model overall.

As for the reliability of .380s, especially mouse guns, I think that clearly there are many issues surrounding the reliability of the early market entrants in the lightweight category. I don't believe that the heavier all metal mouse .380s have these issues, at least not that I have read. I am again very happy that you found one that works and that you are happy with, a good friend of mine has one as well. I believe that as a class of guns (lightweight polymer pocket .380's) that all potential buyers should be wary of them in general. These are shrunken down to a point where the tolerances of production must be so tight that I don't think many producers can consistently make them to the exacting specifications required. This may turn out to be that case with Diamondback, but I would not make that judgment based solely upon this one reviewers experiences.

Again and for the last time, I will state that I took it upon myself to try out a new to market gun. And while I have very honestly and openly shared with all of you my experience, I believe that you will find many more very positive reviews of the DB380 out there as well. I and Diamondback themselves readily admit that I just plain got a bad one. The good news is that they have been totally on top of it and proactive in making me as a buyer whole.
I give them major kudos for 1. breaking the mold of the polymer pocket .380, 2. standing behind what they are producing, and 3. being honest and honorable with their customers.

I have not ever and will not recommend the purchase of this gun nor any gun (Caveat emptor), but simply tell the truth about my experiences. That's it for me. I will update when I get the DB back and how it goes from there. I hope to have good news for everyone but if not I will again share it with you. Regardless of the cost of ammo, it is a darn fun little gun to shoot.

:tiphat:
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