Okay, I've decided to get a Colt 1911. What is the difference in Series 70 and 80?
Pros and cons of each.
Colt 1911 differences
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RPBrown
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Colt 1911 differences
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Re: Colt 1911 differences
the 80 has the firing pin block, the 70 doesn't. i've had a colt series 80 and a springfield, which is like a 70. i didn't really feel any differences between the two, other than i like the springfield better overall.RPBrown wrote:Okay, I've decided to get a Colt 1911. What is the difference in Series 70 and 80?
Pros and cons of each.
There are a few more differences than just the firing pin safety, but it's the most important. It creates what is considered the biggest con of the S80 design by mucking with the trigger pull.
There is a way around this. A pistol with the Swartz safety (Kimber II Series has it) will block the firing pin without messing with the trigger.
A a few things to consider...
The S80 has a different hammer. The hooks square up the same way, but it doesn't have the captive half-cock of the S70 and earlier. Instead, it uses a quarter-cock shelf that is not captive. Two potential issues to think about here: One is the fact that a good S70 hammer half-cock will never catch the sear on the surfaces that engage the hammer hooks. Colt standard S70 hammers, in fact, will catch the sear nose by these surfaces, but most fancy jobs won't.
The second consideration is the effectiveness of the quarter-cock. If the sear nose breaks, the quarter-cock is less likely to actually stop the hammer than a true half-cock. A disturbing number of pistols, like my Springfield, use S80 hammers without the firing pin block. If you stick with the Colt brand (or anything else with a Swartz or S80 FP safety), this shouldn't be a problem. I replaced the S80 hammer in my Springer mostly because I wanted a Commander hammer, but getting rid of the quarter-cock was a definite plus.
The bushing is also something to think about. Both the S70 and S80 pistols are equipped with a collet bushing. I don't know what the production dates are, or whether or not they are still used, but they are out there. They require the use of a slightly different barrel (the OD at the muzzle is a little bigger), and are a bit more delicate than a standard bushing. The barrel can be machined down or replaced if you want to use a standard bushing. The collet does give better accuracy, as it provides a tighter fit, but IMO the accuracy increase is not worth it. A well-fit standard bushing will give the same performance without the delicate nature of the collet. If you get one with a collet bushing, NEVER remove the bushing with the slide forward. Always pull it back to remove the bushing. Attempting to remove the bushing with the slide in or near battery will snap the collet fingers.
On to the safety itself... I have seen a couple examples of the S80 safety parts wearing out and jamming up the works. Obviously this is not a problem on the S70 and earlier models. The S80 safety introduces extra parts, thus increasing the probability of failure. You will have to decide if that is worth it. I don't believe that it is. A properly maintained S70 or earlier pistol will not fire unless the trigger is pulled, or you smack the firing pin with a hammer and punch. Both of these situations require intent to fire the gun. The S80 safety can and will mess with trigger pull, but there is no reason it cannot be carefully tuned to eliminate this problem. The S80 safety will give you some extra insurance against an accidental discharge in the event of a catastrophic failure of the trigger group. It's your personal preference at this point. Do be aware that the S80 FP safety can be disabled with the use of a couple of inexpensive conversion parts if you decide that you don't like it.
Basically, it comes down to your personal preference. Increased safety (to a degree) with a corresponding increase in complexity vs. the standard level of safety with a reliable simplicity. I think they are both good choices. I have my preference, but it's really up to you.
There is a way around this. A pistol with the Swartz safety (Kimber II Series has it) will block the firing pin without messing with the trigger.
A a few things to consider...
The S80 has a different hammer. The hooks square up the same way, but it doesn't have the captive half-cock of the S70 and earlier. Instead, it uses a quarter-cock shelf that is not captive. Two potential issues to think about here: One is the fact that a good S70 hammer half-cock will never catch the sear on the surfaces that engage the hammer hooks. Colt standard S70 hammers, in fact, will catch the sear nose by these surfaces, but most fancy jobs won't.
The second consideration is the effectiveness of the quarter-cock. If the sear nose breaks, the quarter-cock is less likely to actually stop the hammer than a true half-cock. A disturbing number of pistols, like my Springfield, use S80 hammers without the firing pin block. If you stick with the Colt brand (or anything else with a Swartz or S80 FP safety), this shouldn't be a problem. I replaced the S80 hammer in my Springer mostly because I wanted a Commander hammer, but getting rid of the quarter-cock was a definite plus.
The bushing is also something to think about. Both the S70 and S80 pistols are equipped with a collet bushing. I don't know what the production dates are, or whether or not they are still used, but they are out there. They require the use of a slightly different barrel (the OD at the muzzle is a little bigger), and are a bit more delicate than a standard bushing. The barrel can be machined down or replaced if you want to use a standard bushing. The collet does give better accuracy, as it provides a tighter fit, but IMO the accuracy increase is not worth it. A well-fit standard bushing will give the same performance without the delicate nature of the collet. If you get one with a collet bushing, NEVER remove the bushing with the slide forward. Always pull it back to remove the bushing. Attempting to remove the bushing with the slide in or near battery will snap the collet fingers.
On to the safety itself... I have seen a couple examples of the S80 safety parts wearing out and jamming up the works. Obviously this is not a problem on the S70 and earlier models. The S80 safety introduces extra parts, thus increasing the probability of failure. You will have to decide if that is worth it. I don't believe that it is. A properly maintained S70 or earlier pistol will not fire unless the trigger is pulled, or you smack the firing pin with a hammer and punch. Both of these situations require intent to fire the gun. The S80 safety can and will mess with trigger pull, but there is no reason it cannot be carefully tuned to eliminate this problem. The S80 safety will give you some extra insurance against an accidental discharge in the event of a catastrophic failure of the trigger group. It's your personal preference at this point. Do be aware that the S80 FP safety can be disabled with the use of a couple of inexpensive conversion parts if you decide that you don't like it.
Basically, it comes down to your personal preference. Increased safety (to a degree) with a corresponding increase in complexity vs. the standard level of safety with a reliable simplicity. I think they are both good choices. I have my preference, but it's really up to you.
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flintknapper
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Yup, this happened to me with my Para-Ordnance P-13. Albeit, many thousands of rounds were put through it first.Johnny wrote: On to the safety itself... I have seen a couple examples of the S80 safety parts wearing out and jamming up the works. .
The firing pin plunger wore against the detent in the extractor until it would no longer keep the plunger in place. It (the plunger) nearly fell out and wouldn't allow the slide to go into battery. It could have caused a "non-recoverable" jam at a most inopportune time.
My Series 80 is no longer, and never will be again.
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AV8R
There's an old saying that you buy your first sailboat to learn what kind you should have bought in the first place. I think 1911s can be like that, too. These days, though, you don't have to spend much money to get into the 1911 hobby. For series 70s, Springfield has a well-machined and fit gun for the money, usually reliable enough for carry out-of-the-box, and to me, surprisingly accurate.