Wilson Combat upgrade

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Lucky Luke
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Wilson Combat upgrade

#1

Post by Lucky Luke » Fri Nov 14, 2014 12:02 am

Would you upgrade your new Kimber with Wilson Combat parts? Like, hammer, sear, trigger, springs?
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JSThane
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Re: Wilson Combat upgrade

#2

Post by JSThane » Fri Nov 14, 2014 5:23 am

Would you upgrade your new Kimber with Wilson Combat parts? Like, hammer, sear, trigger, springs?
Not unless there was some issue or problem with them. Keep in mind that new parts are likely going to require careful fitting, especially things like the sear and hammer. Out of the box, the Wilson Combat parts might not even work properly, or at all. I fitted an ambidextrous safety to a 1911 several years ago, doing the work myself. It took a couple hours of very careful fitting and polishing, as the Wilson safety was deliberately oversized on the internal lug, to allow for such fitting. Springs are an easier matter to change out; just make sure you've got the right weight for the ammo you're using if you mess with the recoil spring. I wouldn't mess with the sear spring or the hammer spring; unless they break, there's no reason to swap them out.

Unless you are trying to lighten the trigger, provide a customization toward a specific purpose (like my ambi safety), or are experiencing some part-related failure, I would actually recommend -against- replacing internal parts. I "got away" with kludging it together myself, but it's really the job of a competent gunsmith to fit these things, as you're working with some very small bearing surfaces on the sear and hammer hooks, surfaces that require precise angles for proper function. "Getting it wrong" can go -very- wrong indeed, resulting in everything from a gun that won't fire to a gun that will go off if bumped the wrong way.

People like to badmouth the metal-injection molded parts (MIM parts), but unless you mess with them, they serve quite well. People also like to "customize" their guns, and this keeps gunsmiths in business fixing it.

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Jumping Frog
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Re: Wilson Combat upgrade

#3

Post by Jumping Frog » Fri Nov 14, 2014 6:27 am

JSThane wrote:People also like to "customize" their guns, and this keeps gunsmiths in business fixing it.
:thumbs2: :thumbs2:
So true. Bubba gunsmithing often results in real gunsmith revenue.

Before asking about upgrading, the first question to ask is, "What problem am I trying to solve"?
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gljjt
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Re: Wilson Combat upgrade

#4

Post by gljjt » Fri Nov 14, 2014 8:29 am

JSThane wrote:
Would you upgrade your new Kimber with Wilson Combat parts? Like, hammer, sear, trigger, springs?
Not unless there was some issue or problem with them. Keep in mind that new parts are likely going to require careful fitting, especially things like the sear and hammer. Out of the box, the Wilson Combat parts might not even work properly, or at all. I fitted an ambidextrous safety to a 1911 several years ago, doing the work myself. It took a couple hours of very careful fitting and polishing, as the Wilson safety was deliberately oversized on the internal lug, to allow for such fitting. Springs are an easier matter to change out; just make sure you've got the right weight for the ammo you're using if you mess with the recoil spring. I wouldn't mess with the sear spring or the hammer spring; unless they break, there's no reason to swap them out.

Unless you are trying to lighten the trigger, provide a customization toward a specific purpose (like my ambi safety), or are experiencing some part-related failure, I would actually recommend -against- replacing internal parts. I "got away" with kludging it together myself, but it's really the job of a competent gunsmith to fit these things, as you're working with some very small bearing surfaces on the sear and hammer hooks, surfaces that require precise angles for proper function. "Getting it wrong" can go -very- wrong indeed, resulting in everything from a gun that won't fire to a gun that will go off if bumped the wrong way.

People like to badmouth the metal-injection molded parts (MIM parts), but unless you mess with them, they serve quite well. People also like to "customize" their guns, and this keeps gunsmiths in business fixing it.
Reading this makes me think I wouldn't want to own a 1911. This makes it sound like "1911 parts" are not interchangeable, perhaps even unsafe. I don't own one, kind of wanted to get one, but now I am not so sure. I want to shoot and enjoy, not become a gunsmith via OJT. Thoughts?

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Commander Cody
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Re: Wilson Combat upgrade

#5

Post by Commander Cody » Fri Nov 14, 2014 11:22 am

No
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Re: Wilson Combat upgrade

#6

Post by Pawpaw » Fri Nov 14, 2014 12:04 pm

gljjt wrote:Reading this makes me think I wouldn't want to own a 1911. This makes it sound like "1911 parts" are not interchangeable, perhaps even unsafe. I don't own one, kind of wanted to get one, but now I am not so sure. I want to shoot and enjoy, not become a gunsmith via OJT. Thoughts?
They're not unsafe unless someone makes them that way.

The 1911 has been incrementally changed from JMB's original design. As designed, you could detail strip 100 pistols, scramble the parts, and reassemble 100 safe and reliable pistols with very good "combat accuracy".

With the quest for precision (although precious few can truly take advantage of it), has come the practice of making many parts slightly over-sized so they can be hand fitted to more precise tolerances. Today, even entry-level 1911s use hand fitted parts, particularly in the fire control group.
Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence. - John Adams

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gljjt
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Re: Wilson Combat upgrade

#7

Post by gljjt » Fri Nov 14, 2014 1:06 pm

Pawpaw wrote:
gljjt wrote:Reading this makes me think I wouldn't want to own a 1911. This makes it sound like "1911 parts" are not interchangeable, perhaps even unsafe. I don't own one, kind of wanted to get one, but now I am not so sure. I want to shoot and enjoy, not become a gunsmith via OJT. Thoughts?
They're not unsafe unless someone makes them that way.

The 1911 has been incrementally changed from JMB's original design. As designed, you could detail strip 100 pistols, scramble the parts, and reassemble 100 safe and reliable pistols with very good "combat accuracy".

With the quest for precision (although precious few can truly take advantage of it), has come the practice of making many parts slightly over-sized so they can be hand fitted to more precise tolerances. Today, even entry-level 1911s use hand fitted parts, particularly in the fire control group.
Thanks. I know they are safe "stock out the door", but if tinkering around with parts that require "hand fitting" could potentially make them unsafe (I don't see how), that would not be good. This is what the OP stated as far as safety. Sounds like they are "almost/mostly" interchangeable as far are internal parts go. I would still like to have one, but wouldn't use it for CC. I like my 9mm Glocks.

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AndyC
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Re: Wilson Combat upgrade

#8

Post by AndyC » Fri Nov 14, 2014 3:15 pm

Lucky Luke wrote:Would you upgrade your new Kimber with Wilson Combat parts? Like, hammer, sear, trigger, springs?
Not unless there was a specific issue I was trying to resolve, no.
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Re: Wilson Combat upgrade

#9

Post by MechAg94 » Fri Nov 14, 2014 3:37 pm

gljjt wrote:
Pawpaw wrote:
gljjt wrote:Reading this makes me think I wouldn't want to own a 1911. This makes it sound like "1911 parts" are not interchangeable, perhaps even unsafe. I don't own one, kind of wanted to get one, but now I am not so sure. I want to shoot and enjoy, not become a gunsmith via OJT. Thoughts?
They're not unsafe unless someone makes them that way.

The 1911 has been incrementally changed from JMB's original design. As designed, you could detail strip 100 pistols, scramble the parts, and reassemble 100 safe and reliable pistols with very good "combat accuracy".

With the quest for precision (although precious few can truly take advantage of it), has come the practice of making many parts slightly over-sized so they can be hand fitted to more precise tolerances. Today, even entry-level 1911s use hand fitted parts, particularly in the fire control group.
Thanks. I know they are safe "stock out the door", but if tinkering around with parts that require "hand fitting" could potentially make them unsafe (I don't see how), that would not be good. This is what the OP stated as far as safety. Sounds like they are "almost/mostly" interchangeable as far are internal parts go. I would still like to have one, but wouldn't use it for CC. I like my 9mm Glocks.
Lots of people use them for concealed carry. They can be good, reliable guns. The only issue I can think of is you might need to more frequently clean and lube the pistol over something like a Glock.

IMO, ANY pistol or firearm can be made unsafe if someone decides to fiddle with key parts and such trying to make it better.


JSThane
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Re: Wilson Combat upgrade

#10

Post by JSThane » Fri Nov 14, 2014 6:16 pm

gljjt wrote:
Pawpaw wrote:
gljjt wrote:Reading this makes me think I wouldn't want to own a 1911. This makes it sound like "1911 parts" are not interchangeable, perhaps even unsafe. I don't own one, kind of wanted to get one, but now I am not so sure. I want to shoot and enjoy, not become a gunsmith via OJT. Thoughts?
They're not unsafe unless someone makes them that way.

The 1911 has been incrementally changed from JMB's original design. As designed, you could detail strip 100 pistols, scramble the parts, and reassemble 100 safe and reliable pistols with very good "combat accuracy".

With the quest for precision (although precious few can truly take advantage of it), has come the practice of making many parts slightly over-sized so they can be hand fitted to more precise tolerances. Today, even entry-level 1911s use hand fitted parts, particularly in the fire control group.
Thanks. I know they are safe "stock out the door", but if tinkering around with parts that require "hand fitting" could potentially make them unsafe (I don't see how), that would not be good. This is what the OP stated as far as safety. Sounds like they are "almost/mostly" interchangeable as far are internal parts go. I would still like to have one, but wouldn't use it for CC. I like my 9mm Glocks.
If you round the edges on the sear while fitting it, or get the angle of the sear and the hammer hooks wrong, the sear can trip unintentionally, among other things.

The point is not that this is a failing of the 1911, because it isn't. The point is that, like a muscle car, you can "fine-tune" a 1911 to your precise requirements, but it's not as easy as working on a tractor, and you can damage it more easily if you don't know what you're doing. If you don't tinker with Ford's design, a Mustang will still run quite well, and be rather reliable, but if you attempt to supercharge it yourself without knowing what you're doing, you can break it. It's like that.

Oh, and yes, you can make a Glock choke and fail. I've had two that liked to jam on me, and they weren't modified in any way.


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Lucky Luke
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Re: Wilson Combat upgrade

#11

Post by Lucky Luke » Fri Nov 14, 2014 8:11 pm

JSThane wrote:
Would you upgrade your new Kimber with Wilson Combat parts? Like, hammer, sear, trigger, springs?
Not unless there was some issue or problem with them. Keep in mind that new parts are likely going to require careful fitting, especially things like the sear and hammer. Out of the box, the Wilson Combat parts might not even work properly, or at all. I fitted an ambidextrous safety to a 1911 several years ago, doing the work myself. It took a couple hours of very careful fitting and polishing, as the Wilson safety was deliberately oversized on the internal lug, to allow for such fitting. Springs are an easier matter to change out; just make sure you've got the right weight for the ammo you're using if you mess with the recoil spring. I wouldn't mess with the sear spring or the hammer spring; unless they break, there's no reason to swap them out.

Unless you are trying to lighten the trigger, provide a customization toward a specific purpose (like my ambi safety), or are experiencing some part-related failure, I would actually recommend -against- replacing internal parts. I "got away" with kludging it together myself, but it's really the job of a competent gunsmith to fit these things, as you're working with some very small bearing surfaces on the sear and hammer hooks, surfaces that require precise angles for proper function. "Getting it wrong" can go -very- wrong indeed, resulting in everything from a gun that won't fire to a gun that will go off if bumped the wrong way.

People like to badmouth the metal-injection molded parts (MIM parts), but unless you mess with them, they serve quite well. People also like to "customize" their guns, and this keeps gunsmiths in business fixing it.
Thank you for the "educated" thought and not smoking me for carrying a 1911. Well, there's nothing wrong with my NEW Kimber. I guess I'm like the guy who REALLY loves to own a H1 Hummer but can't pay for one and goes and buys a H3!!!! So, that's how my story of "upgrading" started!
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patterson
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Re: Wilson Combat upgrade

#12

Post by patterson » Fri Nov 14, 2014 8:39 pm

There is nothing wrong with carrying a 1911 and I do myself sometimes

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gigag04
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Re: Wilson Combat upgrade

#13

Post by gigag04 » Fri Nov 14, 2014 10:10 pm

Yes, if Kimber is still supplying MIM garbage in their trigger groups.
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patterson
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Re: Wilson Combat upgrade

#14

Post by patterson » Fri Nov 14, 2014 10:28 pm

Don't know about Kimber but haven't had any issues with MIM parts on my Ruger


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Re: Wilson Combat upgrade

#15

Post by Salty1 » Sat Nov 15, 2014 10:56 am

The only change that I would personally make to a Kimber is to change the safety to the low profile one sold by Gunsite. I have this on mine and really like the fact that it sits lower and I can keep my thumb on it when in the fire mode, just a very natural grip for me. If you put money into the Kimber with Wilson parts it is still a Kimber and I doubt if you sold it down the road you would get your money back. If it makes you happy go for it as that is really what counts......
Salty1

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