Packing before CHL

[govnor]

Allright gentleman (and ladies), this is one I've been wondering about for a while.

How many of you were carrying before you had a CHL? Everyone I know, including myself carried before getting a CHL. My dad has for years and has indicated no desire to get a CHL. A cop even told him to, due to some of his former employee's actions. All of my friends pack...CHL or not.

It amazes me when people justify their illegal actions. Carry when it is not legal, and YOU ARE a criminal.

I still don't have a CHL (yet, I'm in the waiting room) but I pack.

If you do it legally. whatever,

I've been pulled over a few times with the gun, but being an honest citizen, have never been searched. I haven't been pulled over in years anyway.

If you carried in an illegal manner, how do you figure you are an "honest citizen"?

I had an instructor tell me to carry around a bag with clothes in it...thus travelling.

Then he was an idiot and knew nothing about the law and how it works and is applied in Texas.

The new law is great and I've been exploiting it until I get the card in the mail.

If you are within the law, you are not "exploiting" anything.

The truth is I have good reasons to carry.

People who behave illegally or unethically always think they have some justification that is more important than law or the ethics they are violating.

If I misread you and you carried without a CHL but legally, then sorry. Otherwise, this all sounds despicable.

You know, TX you're probably right. But it doesn't really change anything. If a cop pulled me out of the car I wouldn't have a gun on me. If I did for some reason, I would tell him before he patted me down. I would never put a LEO in danger. I'm not some gang banger thug. I'm a legitimate business man that carries a lot of cash around. I'm a target for gang banger thugs.

Umm, OK, but if you carry ILLEGALLY in a car, how is that different from a thug?

Illegal is relative to the law anyway. If I have a reason to carry a gun then that's all I need according to Texas law.

REALLY???!!! The law exempts people from crimes who "have a reason"? Please show me THAT law, precedent or other proof?

I've had a lot of good reasons. If I was arrested for it, I would most likely not be convicted of any crime...thus NOT breaking the law.

Naivete or foolishness.

I look at a lot of this stuff like a lawyer. Just because you're arrested means nothing. A crime is something you're convicted for.

Lawyers I know would disagree.....

Despicable? I'm only doing the same thing you're doing just without a permit. If you think it's despicable then you should possibly rethink carrying a gun altogether. I'm just out for one thing...protecting myself and my family...regardless of what the law says. In fact, if I lived in a place like DC, Chicago or New York where it's illegal to own a gun. You can bet that I will have one beside my bed anyway. Each to their own. I'm sorry, but I subscribe to the second amendment of the constitution of the United States.

Then change the law. Violating the law because YOU think it is wrong will likely land you in jail, and is a HUGE miscomprehension of our entire system.

Do you DRIVE without a license? Do you believe the state has no "speed limits". Do you fail to pay taxes because the Feds have no legal right to collect them. Justify all you want, but its just that.

Well, TX we'll never agree on this. To me, breaking an unconstitutional law is not doing anything wrong. I don't feel bad about it. I sleep well at night. Besides, like I said, I would never be convicted anyway...thus not breaking any laws.

Umm, OK, but if you carry ILLEGALLY in a car, how is that different from a thug?

I hope you're joking about this one, but since you aren't... The difference between me and your regular "thug" is that I have a JOB and a family. I own a lot of stuff that I legally bought. I have something to protect. I got it all legally. I carry a lot of cash around because I EARN it legally with my business.

A thug goes out and sells crack or sticks up someone to get their money. Then they spend it on drugs and rob you to get some more. They would rape your wife or girlfriend...or in my case fiance. They break down your door in the middle of the night or try to car jack you while you're at a red light. I hope I've cleared this up.

And thanks for calling me a thug anyway...I really appreciate it.

[govnor]

Hey Gov like I have read on this and so many other forums. " Better to be Judged by 12 then carried by 6 " If you need to carry to protect you and family thats OK by me!

Thank you Doug. I almost quoted that one!

[govnor]

With which militia group do you associate, sympathize, support, ...whatever?

Man, give me a break. Whether you believe it or not there are a lot of people out there packing without a CHL. They don't have to be a conspiracy theorist to do so, which I am not. Just go on and search everyone you stop. I'm sure every once in a while you'll find something. Meanwhile look up the laws on reasonable search and seizure.

[Flatland2D]

You know, as long as you fulfill everything in HB823 (2005) for travelling (which is basically sitting in your car), you are doing nothing illegal. It's the second you step out of the car that you would be breaking the law. I wasn't clear on whether or not you pack outside the car as most of your examples involve being inside one. But yeah, it's foolish to think you'll never bump into a cop at a point you're illegally carrying. A little gust of wind at just the wrong time, or bending over and forgetting about printing, and you're going to have a long day.

I'd advise t just keep it in your car. You're so close, don't mess it up now.

[txinvestigator]

Allright gentleman (and ladies), this is one I've been wondering about for a while.

How many of you were carrying before you had a CHL? Everyone I know, including myself carried before getting a CHL. My dad has for years and has indicated no desire to get a CHL. A cop even told him to, due to some of his former employee's actions. All of my friends pack...CHL or not.

It amazes me when people justify their illegal actions. Carry when it is not legal, and YOU ARE a criminal.

I still don't have a CHL (yet, I'm in the waiting room) but I pack.

If you do it legally. whatever,

I've been pulled over a few times with the gun, but being an honest citizen, have never been searched. I haven't been pulled over in years anyway.

If you carried in an illegal manner, how do you figure you are an "honest citizen"?

I had an instructor tell me to carry around a bag with clothes in it...thus travelling.

Then he was an idiot and knew nothing about the law and how it works and is applied in Texas.

The new law is great and I've been exploiting it until I get the card in the mail.

If you are within the law, you are not "exploiting" anything.

The truth is I have good reasons to carry.

People who behave illegally or unethically always think they have some justification that is more important than law or the ethics they are violating.

If I misread you and you carried without a CHL but legally, then sorry. Otherwise, this all sounds despicable.

You know, TX you're probably right. But it doesn't really change anything. If a cop pulled me out of the car I wouldn't have a gun on me. If I did for some reason, I would tell him before he patted me down. I would never put a LEO in danger. I'm not some gang banger thug. I'm a legitimate business man that carries a lot of cash around. I'm a target for gang banger thugs.

Umm, OK, but if you carry ILLEGALLY in a car, how is that different from a thug?

Illegal is relative to the law anyway. If I have a reason to carry a gun then that's all I need according to Texas law.

REALLY???!!! The law exempts people from crimes who "have a reason"? Please show me THAT law, precedent or other proof?

I've had a lot of good reasons. If I was arrested for it, I would most likely not be convicted of any crime...thus NOT breaking the law.

Naivete or foolishness.

I look at a lot of this stuff like a lawyer. Just because you're arrested means nothing. A crime is something you're convicted for.

Lawyers I know would disagree.....

Despicable? I'm only doing the same thing you're doing just without a permit. If you think it's despicable then you should possibly rethink carrying a gun altogether. I'm just out for one thing...protecting myself and my family...regardless of what the law says. In fact, if I lived in a place like DC, Chicago or New York where it's illegal to own a gun. You can bet that I will have one beside my bed anyway. Each to their own. I'm sorry, but I subscribe to the second amendment of the constitution of the United States.

Then change the law. Violating the law because YOU think it is wrong will likely land you in jail, and is a HUGE miscomprehension of our entire system.

Do you DRIVE without a license? Do you believe the state has no "speed limits". Do you fail to pay taxes because the Feds have no legal right to collect them. Justify all you want, but its just that.

Well, TX we'll never agree on this. To me, breaking an unconstitutional law is not doing anything wrong. I don't feel bad about it. I sleep well at night. Besides, like I said, I would never be convicted anyway...thus not breaking any laws.

Umm, OK, but if you carry ILLEGALLY in a car, how is that different from a thug?

I hope you're joking about this one, but since you aren't... The difference between me and your regular "thug" is that I have a JOB and a family. I own a lot of stuff that I legally bought. I have something to protect. I got it all legally. I carry a lot of cash around because I EARN it legally with my business.

A thug goes out and sells crack or sticks up someone to get their money. Then they spend it on drugs and rob you to get some more. They would rape your wife or girlfriend...or in my case fiance. They break down your door in the middle of the night or try to car jack you while you're at a red light. I hope I've cleared this up.

And thanks for calling me a thug anyway...I really appreciate it.

Sorry, but I didn't call you a thug. I asked a simple question, based on YOUR previous post.

And you didn't answer my question. WHICH LAW SAYS IF YOU HAVE A "GOOD REASON" YOU CAN VIOLATE OTHER LAWS LEGALLY?

Maybe a thug thinks HIS need for YOUR stuff overrides the laws he breaks.

But you are not stupid, and you know exactly about what I am writing.

So, which of militia group are you a member?

[govnor]

You know, as long as you fulfill everything in HB823 (2005) for travelling (which is basically sitting in your car), you are doing nothing illegal. It's the second you step out of the car that you would be breaking the law. I wasn't clear on whether or not you pack outside the car as most of your examples involve being inside one. But yeah, it's foolish to think you'll never bump into a cop at a point you're illegally carrying. A little gust of wind at just the wrong time, or bending over and forgetting about printing, and you're going to have a long day.

I'd advise t just keep it in your car. You're so close, don't mess it up now.

Hehe, don't worry my friend...I never pack outside the car unless I'm at my house. I have before, but only in a very threatening situation, like East Dallas where I used to live...

[txinvestigator]

With which militia group do you associate, sympathize, support, ...whatever?

Man, give me a break. Whether you believe it or not there are a lot of people out there packing without a CHL. They don't have to be a conspiracy theorist to do so, which I am not. Just go on and search everyone you stop. I'm sure every once in a while you'll find something. Meanwhile look up the laws on reasonable search and seizure.

I am well aware of the "rulings" on search and seizure, Scooter. Why don't you enlighten the others, though.

Again, I already said IF you are carrying in compliance with the law, then this conversation is moot. I take it from your posts that you were not carrying legally before the traveling presumption became effective. Did I misread?

[Flatland2D]

Hehe, don't worry my friend...I never pack outside the car unless I'm at my house. I have before, but only in a very threatening situation, like East Dallas where I used to live...

In that case, I don't know what the big deal is. Just watch out for cry baby DA's who didn't get their way.

[txinvestigator]

Alright, it has been real, but I gotta get my beauty rest.

It will be interesting to see where this is tomorrow.

Stay safe everyone.

[govnor]

Sorry, but I didn't call you a thug. I asked a simple question, based on YOUR previous post.

And you didn't answer my question. WHICH LAW SAYS IF YOU HAVE A "GOOD REASON" YOU CAN VIOLATE OTHER LAWS LEGALLY?

Maybe a thug thinks HIS need for YOUR stuff overrides the laws he breaks.

But you are not stupid, and you know exactly about what I am writing.

So, which of militia group are you a member?

I am not a lawyer...first of all. But you're being completely ridiculous! I'm not a member of any militia group. Unless you want to include the NRA. I'm not going to try to define the law to you. That's why you hire a lawyer.

If a thug wants my stuff, then he will have a .40 shoved up his...

[Skiprr]

Packin' illegally is a storm waitin' to happen...

[govnor]

Good lord TX...are you a Democrat? If not, I suggest you join their party.

[rm9792]

All of my friends pack...CHL or not.

Please tell us who your friends are.

People packin' illegally deserve a Condition Orange. Those of us legally packin' need to be on alert.

Why? How are they any more dangerous because they dont have a pioece of plastic on them? They might be more qualified than a lot of chl's to handle a weapon. I dont like blanket statements like that.

[govnor]

All of my friends pack...CHL or not.

Please tell us who your friends are.

People packin' illegally deserve a Condition Orange. Those of us legally packin' need to be on alert.

Why? How are they any more dangerous because they dont have a pioece of plastic on them? They might be more qualified than a lot of chl's to handle a weapon. I dont like blanket statements like that.

I was thinking the same thing. Why do you want to know who my friends are now? Is the Nazi party back in yet? I've checked lately and haven't seen anyone goose stepping...

[rm9792]

You know, TX you're probably right. But it doesn't really change anything. If a cop pulled me out of the car I wouldn't have a gun on me. If I did for some reason, I would tell him before he patted me down. I would never put a LEO in danger. I'm not some gang banger thug. I'm a legitimate business man that carries a lot of cash around. I'm a target for gang banger thugs.

Umm, OK, but if you carry ILLEGALLY in a car, how is that different from a thug?

Intent. Thugs are looking for trouble and tend to find it. He is wanting to defend himself. Whether you beleive it or not, intent is a large part of the law. I have carried since I was 20 and have told several LEO I had it in the car when I was pulled over and guess what? No one ever took it or arrested me. They usually told me to leave my hands on the wheel while they went to write the ticket.

Illegal is relative to the law anyway. If I have a reason to carry a gun then that's all I need according to Texas law.

REALLY???!!! The law exempts people from crimes who "have a reason"? Please show me THAT law, precedent or other proof?

I've had a lot of good reasons. If I was arrested for it, I would most likely not be convicted of any crime...thus NOT breaking the law.

It is illegal to kill someone. Unless you have a "reason" that is justifiable. It is illegal to speed or run redlights, UNLESS you have "reason" that is justifiable. Laws are not hardcoded and can be bent or broken if there is cause. I am new to this forum but you seem to think very black/white when the world is quite grey.