CZ Scorpion Pistol to SBR

Gun, shooting and equipment discussions unrelated to CHL issues

Moderator: carlson1

User avatar

The Annoyed Man
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 2
Posts: 23919
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 12:59 pm
Location: North Richland Hills, Texas
Contact:

Re: CZ Scorpion Pistol to SBR

#16

Post by The Annoyed Man » Thu Jun 07, 2018 10:16 am

Regarding the CZ SBR...... I recall a recent article from TFB about CZ and other brands of pistols with folding braces being reclassified as “other” and seized by ATF - something to do with the overall length of the weapon’s overall length with the brace extended versus folded. With the registered SBR, is there a risk that ATF would do the same thing to SBRs that have folding stocks and seek to seize them? If you could provide some additional clarity on that whole issue, that would be great. Sometimes these kinds of articles are written by someone who does not have your ATF credentials, and who may be hyperventilating a little bit.

Regarding vertical forend grips...... I’ve always avoided them because as a general thing, I prefer a more traditional way of gripping my rifle with my off hand.,...... with one exception. I built a replica M16A4 last year, and the KAC vertical forend grip was an issue item along with the KAC M5 RAS forend assembly. The vertical grip does seem to help manage the weight of the full length rifle, making it easier to keep the thing pulled into my shoulder .....although I’ve shot for years without using one, on heavier rifles, and had no problems. Mostly, it’s there for the sale of visual authenticity.

Regarding your AR SBR pictured above..... I built a 10.5” .300 Blk SBR a while back, and I originally used that same Minimalist stock that’s one yours. A few months back, I swapped it out for a Magpul MOE ACS-L carbine stock, which I prefer. The Minimalist stock is well made, but I had the problem of always snagging the toe of the stock on things like folds in clothing and such when mounting the stock. The Magpul unit doesn’t weigh too much more, and it feels more like a buttstock to me, with a better cheek rest.

Edited to add...... is there any other reason than convenience for using a locking lug type of mount for a suppressor? I have an Obsidian pistol suppressor, and it is direct thread mounted. Are the lug type mounts as secure in terms of keeping the can concentric to the bore?
Give me Liberty, or I'll get up and get it myself.—Hookalakah Meshobbab
I don't carry because of the odds, I carry because of the stakes.—The Annoyed Boy

User avatar

Topic author
Scott B.
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 10
Posts: 1115
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2014 11:46 am
Location: Harris County

Re: CZ Scorpion Pistol to SBR

#17

Post by Scott B. » Thu Jun 07, 2018 12:23 pm

The Annoyed Man wrote:
Thu Jun 07, 2018 10:16 am
Regarding the CZ SBR...... I recall a recent article from TFB about CZ and other brands of pistols with folding braces being reclassified as “other” and seized by ATF - something to do with the overall length of the weapon’s overall length with the brace extended versus folded. With the registered SBR, is there a risk that ATF would do the same thing to SBRs that have folding stocks and seek to seize them? If you could provide some additional clarity on that whole issue, that would be great
...

Edited to add...... is there any other reason than convenience for using a locking lug type of mount for a suppressor? I have an Obsidian pistol suppressor, and it is direct thread mounted. Are the lug type mounts as secure in terms of keeping the can concentric to the bore?
I had to go back and reread that article as I only skimmed it when it was first published. It appears that particular situation is unique to the great state of Connecticut and their interpretation of what a pistol/rifle/eveeeeeel black gun are.

INAL, this is just general info.

The advantage of an SBR is that you don't have to worry about some new interpretation of what a pistol is or is not. You've paid for the 'privilege' of going short with whatever stock rocks your boat. There are occasional rulings on new firearms when it comes to the NFA side, but it's pretty static.

Unlike the ground we find ourselves on w/ what is or is not a pistol, based on a brace 'designed' to accommodate those unable to grasp a pistol normally.

For your SBR, or SBS, the overall length, or even barrel length, provided at the time of your stamp application doesn't have to be adhered to after approval. You can go shorter, longer, whatever. I think it's recommended that you have the ability return to original config if you want to sell it on. However, since there's really no secondary market for NFA items --- save for full auto -- then that's basically moot.

AND, if you get tired of the NFA game. You can return your item to title 1 configuration, pistol or rifle, and let ATF know to take it off the books.


Suppressors. W/ a mount system you have more confidence that the suppressor is staying on and is lined up correctly (provided the mount itself was lined up correctly when installed). Direct thread cans, particularly on rifles, sometimes back off under continued firing. That said, people have screwed up when using some of the different mount systems too.

To me the advantage of the mount system is the ability to move to other rifles without much fuss.

Now w/ pistols, cans are almost exclusively direct thread.
LTC Instructor. NRA - Instructor, RSO, Life Member.
Sig armorer | FFL 07/02 SOT


SigM4
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 6
Posts: 585
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2007 11:14 am
Location: Willow Park

Re: CZ Scorpion Pistol to SBR

#18

Post by SigM4 » Thu Jun 07, 2018 12:50 pm

The Annoyed Man wrote:
Thu Jun 07, 2018 10:16 am
Edited to add...... is there any other reason than convenience for using a locking lug type of mount for a suppressor? I have an Obsidian pistol suppressor, and it is direct thread mounted. Are the lug type mounts as secure in terms of keeping the can concentric to the bore?
I'll echo what Scott said on the subject. At least in the case of the 3-lug mount, I shouldn't have to worry about it backing off after an extended string of fire. Couple that with the easy on/off attachment and it makes for easily swapping between pistol caliber carbines. Rugged makes a very nice 3-lug adapter for your Obsidian (I have an Obsidian and the adapter in addition to my Octane) in case you ever have the desire to suppress something in this vein down the road.

As far as the lockup, yes, very positive lockup and keeps the can nice and tight without any wiggle.
Success always occurs in private, and failure in full view.

User avatar

The Annoyed Man
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 2
Posts: 23919
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 12:59 pm
Location: North Richland Hills, Texas
Contact:

Re: CZ Scorpion Pistol to SBR

#19

Post by The Annoyed Man » Thu Jun 07, 2018 2:07 pm

SigM4 wrote:
Thu Jun 07, 2018 12:50 pm
The Annoyed Man wrote:
Thu Jun 07, 2018 10:16 am
Edited to add...... is there any other reason than convenience for using a locking lug type of mount for a suppressor? I have an Obsidian pistol suppressor, and it is direct thread mounted. Are the lug type mounts as secure in terms of keeping the can concentric to the bore?
I'll echo what Scott said on the subject. At least in the case of the 3-lug mount, I shouldn't have to worry about it backing off after an extended string of fire. Couple that with the easy on/off attachment and it makes for easily swapping between pistol caliber carbines. Rugged makes a very nice 3-lug adapter for your Obsidian (I have an Obsidian and the adapter in addition to my Octane) in case you ever have the desire to suppress something in this vein down the road.

As far as the lockup, yes, very positive lockup and keeps the can nice and tight without any wiggle.
Both of my rifle suppressors mount by means of a flash hider or muzzle brake with a proprietary mount. I have an AAC flash hider on 3 of my rifles, to fit my AAC can; and I have Griffin Armament taper mount muzzle brakes on 3 other long guns to mount my Form 1 can. The AAC can always locks up tight because it uses a 51T ratchet.But the Form 1 cans we own have to be checked periodically to make sure they haven’t shot loose. if you tighten them down onto the taper too much, you can’t get them off without waiting for everything to cool down sufficiently.

I have tried swapping my Obsidian can between a Glock 17 and a Keltech Sub 2000 carbine, but there are issues. For instance, my can is the Obsidian45, and it works fine on both 9mm and .45 pistols. I had purchased a 9mm end cap for it, which worked fine on the 9mm pistol. But when I shot it configured that way on the Keltec (with a fixed barrel spacer in place of piston), I got a strike on the 9mm end cap that ruined it - a $65 lesson. Going back to the .45 end cap fixed the problem, but point of impact shift is so severe that there wasn’t enough adjustment range in the PA RDS to zero the carbine. Back to square one. I’m not going to bother replacing the 9mm end cap, as the .45 version with 9mm subsonics is still REALLY quiet.

Also, even if you put a 3-lug mount on both weapons, you still have to remove the piston and substitute a fixed barrel spacer anyway to go from a pistol to a carbine. So unless I’m missing something, I don’t see an advantage there. But I can see how it would make switching from pistol to pistol, or carbine to carbine easier.......just not from pistol to carbine or visa versa.
Give me Liberty, or I'll get up and get it myself.—Hookalakah Meshobbab
I don't carry because of the odds, I carry because of the stakes.—The Annoyed Boy


SigM4
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 6
Posts: 585
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2007 11:14 am
Location: Willow Park

Re: CZ Scorpion Pistol to SBR

#20

Post by SigM4 » Sun Jun 10, 2018 9:21 pm

The Annoyed Man wrote:
Thu Jun 07, 2018 2:07 pm
Also, even if you put a 3-lug mount on both weapons, you still have to remove the piston and substitute a fixed barrel spacer anyway to go from a pistol to a carbine. So unless I’m missing something, I don’t see an advantage there. But I can see how it would make switching from pistol to pistol, or carbine to carbine easier.......just not from pistol to carbine or visa versa.
I wouldn’t recommend a 3 lug on a pistol simply because the recoil with the Nielsen Device could do funky things with the 3 lug engagement. I’ve never heard of it happening, but I’d rather be safe than sorry. Plus, it just looks weird on a pistol. :mrgreen:
Success always occurs in private, and failure in full view.

User avatar

SQLGeek
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 1
Posts: 2836
Joined: Sun Feb 28, 2010 1:48 am
Location: Richmond, TX

Re: CZ Scorpion Pistol to SBR

#21

Post by SQLGeek » Mon Jun 11, 2018 8:42 am

Scott, I dig that color. It reminds me of plum AK furniture which I am also rather fond of.
Psalm 91:2

Post Reply

Return to “General Gun, Shooting & Equipment Discussion”