para ord vs. kimber

[drifteratheart]

i'm looking for a new carry gun and i'm stuck between the kimber ultra carry II and the para ordance slim hawg. do you guys have any suggestions?

[Lumberjack98]

First off, they would probably both make a great carry pistol, you just need to decide which one fits you better.

The Kimber weighs 5oz less (25 vs 30), has a larger "lowered and flared" ejection port and is available in stainless or black (Para appears to be stainless only). You also get one more round with the Kimber (7+1) than the Para.

Also Kimber is a US company and Para is a Canadian company. To some people that makes a difference.

I don't own either, but with just a quick look at both of them, I'd go with the Kimber.

[Liberty]

First off, they would probably both make a great carry pistol, you just need to decide which one fits you better.

The Kimber weighs 5oz less (25 vs 30), has a larger "lowered and flared" ejection port and is available in stainless or black (Para appears to be stainless only). You also get one more round with the Kimber (7+1) than the Para.

Also Kimber is a US company and Para is a Canadian company. To some people that makes a difference.

I don't own either, but with just a quick look at both of them, I'd go with the Kimber.

I don't know much about either, and have never owned either, But from what I have read here on the Kimbers. A lot of people have had to buy third party Mags and send the gun off to a gunsmith to get the guns to accept and eat ammo. It seems that every one that buys them and finally gets them to work is happy with them, but I seriously wonder about spending big bucks on a gun that won't work out of the box.

[flintknapper]

First off, they would probably both make a great carry pistol, you just need to decide which one fits you better.

The Kimber weighs 5oz less (25 vs 30), has a larger "lowered and flared" ejection port and is available in stainless or black (Para appears to be stainless only). You also get one more round with the Kimber (7+1) than the Para.

Also Kimber is a US company and Para is a Canadian company. To some people that makes a difference.

I don't own either, but with just a quick look at both of them, I'd go with the Kimber.

Nope,

The Para is available in either Stainless or Black.....and there is an alloy version that weighs 24 oz. empty. It is smaller in dimension than a Colt officers model.

Here is a short write up: http://ezine.m1911.org/POslimhawg.htm

Both Kimber and Para make excellent weapons, both have had their share of problems.

The Para comes with a lifetime warranty.

[Lumberjack98]

Nope,

The Para is available in either Stainless or Black.....and there is an alloy version that weighs 24 oz. empty. It is smaller in dimension than a Colt officers model.

Here is a short write up: http://ezine.m1911.org/POslimhawg.htm

Both Kimber and Para make excellent weapons, both have had their share of problems.

The Para comes with a lifetime warranty.

That's a good write up on the Para. Thanks for the clarification.

I didn't see on their website that there were any other options. I got my information from here: http://www.paraord.com/product/product.html?id=76

[longtooth]

Drifter,
I have been away from my station on the board for a couple of days & will appologize for the delay but will offer you a word from the Kimber end & ask Flintknapper to address the Para side if he will.
I carry a Kimber & have shot both.

Kimber has only had one general problem that I know of. Their generation 1 guns had external extractors. They did give a # of problems. When they went to an internal extractor that solved "the problem" with Kimbers. For sure there have been some folks that have had other problems w/ them. Back to the factory & need work. I have read several "horror stories" on other boards. Kimber customer service is top of the line & I know of no verified problem w/ a Kimber that their Customer Service has not taken care of. I do not believe Kimber has more problems than any other make & way less than many.

Personal experience:
I have owned 5 Kimbers. Out of the box everyone has been reliable from the 1st round I fired.
1-Custom Royal. This is one of the base line 5" guns. I bought this from a college student that had put less than 100 rds through it. I shot it a little before trading it to another board member. He does not check in much but the last time I had email contact w/ him he still had it & it was his carry gun. I will give you a contact if you would like his oppinion.
This gun never had any mag in it except factory the short time I owned it. Bubba probably did like the majority of us do & put Wilson Combat mags in it & on his belt.

1-Compact CDP - I bought this one unfired from a young newly wed who should have asked before he spent.
I fired the 1st round out of it & this is the only gun I ever shot new w/o cleaning it. I ran 2 mags through it w/o any bobble. Ammo was round nose hardball. Factory mag.
I did get Wilson mags immediately but kept & used the factory for a range mag. I soon retired it to back up range mag w/ some feed issues on the 1st round in the mag & the last one.
I carried this gun 3 yrs w/ Wilson Combat mags & shot it EXTENSIVELY. I never remember any malfunction w/ factory ammo.
It was not picky about personal defense ammo as far as function. It did shoot Remington Golden Sabre more accurately than others.

1-Eclipse- Traded for this one dirty, Dirty, DIRTY. (dont Flint) Barrel leaded up bad. I cleaned it, & Cleaned It, & CLEANED IT. Functioned fine from the first cleaning. Accuracy improved to excellent Kimber quality as the barrel cleaned up. I sold that one to a forum member about a yr ago & can put you in touch w/ him. He is a very VERY good long time friend or I would still have that one.

2-Pro CDPs - One bought from a board member & can put you in touch w/ him. The other local & can do the same.
First one did not have the 500 recomended breakin rds through it, I believe. No issues in the hands of original owner, he sold the gun to fund a Wilson. 2 Wilson Mags came in the deal here. I carried this one for 3yrs w/o issue w/ any factory ammo. After 200+ rds of reloads it would need a fresh oiling to keep running smooth. This one is pushing the 10,000 rd mark now. A couple of months ago I sold it to my son who shoots it as much or more than I did. When he bought it I was down to the Wilson mags I had in it & on my belt. The one in it went w/ the gun & I gave him 2 SA 10rd mags w/ it. These were mags I had used often in combat situation training. They made many trips to the ground, took a lot of dirt, had uncountable rds through them, taken apart & cleaned a # of times. One of these has started some feed issues. I have got to say it is the wore out mag & not the gun.
Local one probably had under 200 through it. No issues w/ original owner who traded it due to job change & needing money. I can put you in touch w/ him too if you like.

How many people do I personally know that had ANY problem w/ a Kimber out of the box. NONE.

mags issue. Kimbers will run good w/ a number of quality mags. Wilson Combat are the most popular & available. I have used Les Baer & Cobra by Tripp Research. I believe any quality mag will run in a Kimber. I do recommend the plastic followers for a CDP. Steel followers w/ the pointed lip seem to scar the feed ramp.

Flint should get in here on the Paras. Both are high quality arms.

I will muddy the water for you a little.
If you are going the 5" stainless route & not the CDP, or Light Wt Para, Comander length, you might look at the Springfield Armory 1911A1s. I believe $ for $ they are the best TIME PROVEN gun for the money today. (some may disagree) I own one & carry it about as often as I do the K. Matter o fact, I have it on right now.
LT

[longtooth]

Flint you are faster than I am. Good morning my friend.

[Diode]

+1 for the Kimber Ultra Carry II. I have one and carry it.

[TX Rancher]

I’m a Kimber fan…and as such would opt for the Ultra Carry. At present, I have two Ultra’s, one is the stainless version and the other is a CDP. I carry them often, which means I am willing to bet my life on them.

The only modification to the system out of the box was changing the magazines to Wilson Combat and the weapons have run reliably since day one, and that includes multiple 1000+ round classes without a failure.

I have a Para P-12 that was less then reliable out of the box, but a good set of springs for the magazines and a little work with the dremel tool cured the reliability issue. I like the higher capacity of the Para, but the added weight when compared to the Kimber’s means it spends a lot of time in the safe. A lighter version like what you are looking at would be much nicer for all day carry.

As I said, I would opt for the Kimber, but that’s just personal preference on my part. I suspect either one would work fine for you.

[drifteratheart]

thanks for the help guys, i guess it'll be whatever i can find for a good price this weekend at the show

[Diode]

thanks for the help guys, i guess it'll be whatever i can find for a good price this weekend at the show

Sounds like a good plan!

[HankB]

The only guy I know who had lots of problems with a Kimber had one of their really, really short carry pistols - haven't seen him for a while, but the last I heard he never did get it to run reliably. The larger (Commander-size and up) Kimbers generally seem to work well, but the company still seems to put out a noticeable percentage that need a gunsmith's attention to work as they should.

Para-Ordnance has visibly improved their QC from 10 years ago, but they still seem to be a bit spotty on quality.

If I'm spending close to a grand, I expect the pistol to work right out of the box. (OK, I always clean & lube it first.) If it

[flintknapper]

Go here: http://forums.1911forum.com/

Pick any manufacturer you want and you'll find both praise and condemnation for each and every one.

I've had excellent luck with the Para's I've owned...but I am not "pushing" them. They simply had features I wanted that other manufacturers did not offer at the time. I have not regretted purchasing any of them.

My personal opinion (concerning 1911's) is that Springfield Armory currently offers the best value for your money.

Buying a firearm is a very personal thing....so I wouldn't put too much "stock" in anyones suggestion(s) (especially mine). Stay with a major manufacturer, see which firearm feels best to you, then be certain to test it with the personal defense ammo you intend to carry.

Best of luck to you, and post your beauty here when your done deciding.


Flint.

[badkarma56]

Anyone have any personal experience with those SigArms 1911's? I wonder how they stack up in terms of reliability...

[mr surveyor]

one of my best running buddies has the Sig 1911.. paid around $1100 for it, and its a keeper. Very, very nice, with a really good trigger out of the biox, and accuracy/reliability has been excellent. If I wasn't so happy with what I have, I would lust after his Sig.