new hi power clone

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ghostrider
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new hi power clone

#1

Post by ghostrider »

Now that Browning has discontinued the Hi Power, Turkey may be the remaining source for new Hi power clones:

https://www.lkcillc.com/products/9mm/

https://www.brownells.com/firearms/hand ... 18691.aspx
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Re: new hi power clone

#2

Post by puma guy »

Another alternative is a used FEG or FEG produced Charles Daly. I have both a Browning and a Charles Daly. The Daly actually has a better trigger and better designed safety lever.
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Re: new hi power clone

#3

Post by Charles L. Cotton »

ghostrider wrote: Fri Jun 01, 2018 11:45 pm Now that Browning has discontinued the Hi Power, Turkey may be the remaining source for new Hi power clones:

https://www.lkcillc.com/products/9mm/

https://www.brownells.com/firearms/hand ... 18691.aspx
That looks like a very nice clone. You may have cost me $500. Actually, $550 since I think I'd get the stainless version. Since I'm sold on red dot sights, I wonder if the Hi-Power slide has enough depth to mill it for a low-mount RDS?

Chas.

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Re: new hi power clone

#4

Post by ghostrider »

Another alternative is a used FEG or FEG produced Charles Daly. I have both a Browning and a Charles Daly. The Daly actually has a better trigger and better designed safety lever.

there is also the licensed copy made in Argentina by FM, if you can find them.
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Re: new hi power clone

#5

Post by puma guy »

Charles L. Cotton wrote: Sun Jun 03, 2018 7:24 pm
ghostrider wrote: Fri Jun 01, 2018 11:45 pm Now that Browning has discontinued the Hi Power, Turkey may be the remaining source for new Hi power clones:

https://www.lkcillc.com/products/9mm/

https://www.brownells.com/firearms/hand ... 18691.aspx
That looks like a very nice clone. You may have cost me $500. Actually, $550 since I think I'd get the stainless version. Since I'm sold on red dot sights, I wonder if the Hi-Power slide has enough depth to mill it for a low-mount RDS?

Chas.
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Re: new hi power clone

#6

Post by ghostrider »

That looks like a very nice clone. You may have cost me $500. Actually, $550 since I think I'd get the stainless version.
yeah, I think I need a stainless steel one too :-)

Since I'm sold on red dot sights, I wonder if the Hi-Power slide has enough depth to mill it for a low-mount RDS?
not sure; do you know what depth is needed for the mill cut?
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Re: new hi power clone

#7

Post by K-Texas »

Okay, I've owned the FEG Hi-Power and fired several. I'd say they were a bit more faithful to the original design than to call them a clone.

Would you like some historical evidence? One of the first nationally known gunsmithing companies that specialize in custom Hi-Powers used the same base FEG pistol that I once owned (and wish I still had). Things is, they had a vent-rib on top of the slide. Cylinder & Slide milled the vent-rib off of the slide even while there was another model more closely resembling the P-35.

The model I had was very accurate. I even put Pachmayr (Hi-Power) grips on mine, all internal parts were interchangeable. So please, if anyone knows where I can find another, unused, please let me know, because as far as I know, FEG in Hungary no longer exists.

The model that is the topic of this thread is made by Tisas in Turkey. There's even a stainless steel model. I got very excited about them and read anything on the web that I could find. Unfortunately, that led to reports of broken extractors while their owners/shooters claim they were using cheap 115 gr. loads. Not a load I would have any interest in where my 9mm handloads begin at 124 grs. and fired only in pistols rated +P or 9mm NATO. The only 2 companies in Turkey that I'm aware of that actually have NATO certification are Sarsilmaz and Canik. I have one of each and they're the only ones I can vouch for personally. Specifically, a SARGUN 9 that was imported by EAA and a TP9sa imported by Century Arms. These pistols compare to anything made in Europe or the US. In fact, while a bit confusing by its model designation, the new SAR9 (totally different pistol from my SARGUN 9) was as Sarsilmaz puts it, tested against the best pistols from Germany, Austria and the US, and beat all of them. Factory pistols have been fired 100,000 rounds and a few examples went on to get an additional 50,000 rounds on top of the previous 100,000 by the Turk National Police.

Canik now states that their pistols are warranted to still meet the accuracy spec of 3" groups at 25 YARDS after 60,000 Rounds. Don't be fooled by their price. Particularly not when you consider their exchange rate for the US Dollar. There are literally a myriad of other Turkish gunmakers. I have fired nothing but my 9mm handloads through my Turks that I won't even post data for, but from my 32 years of experience with the specific powders and OACLs I use, I know they are not much if any above the 9mm NATO spec of 36,500 PSI/CIP and certainly not above the SAAMI limit of 38,500 PSI for +P. SAAMI standard pressure spec is 35,000 PSI while most commercially made ammo has a built-in safety cushion in pressure below that.

So, what is Tisas doing that would cause their extractors to break with inexpensive 115 gr. loads that are fairly mild by comparison? I do not know, and most likely, you can't find out, either. Just try sending them an email asking why? I'll let you know when I hear back from them. For now, I'm not buying any Turkish clone of the Hi-Power (P-35) or 1911. Sarsilmaz and Canik pistols aren't true clones of anything except for the CZ-75 clones. Even still, I haven't heard of any of them failing, and you need to go no farther than Cajun Gunworks to read what they think of the Canik CZ-75 clones. They're even making specific parts for them.

If you're reading reviews online, you'll inevitably read something where someone says that Turkey is not our friend! For now they are, and they have the 2nd largest standing army in NATO. So, here's where we get into the nut-cuttin'. Canik is a public co. in Turkey. Sarsilmaz is privately owned and has been since they started making guns in 1880. If Turkey's whacko president tries to make Tuekey another Islamic state, Canik is pretty much screwed while Sarsilmaz can fold shop and move wherever they want to. There's been talk already about Sarsilmaz making guns in the US while they claim to be currently making products for our Spec-Ops troops. Currently, however, Canik's TP9 series, and particularly their TP9SFx that are optic and competition ready, are catching on rapidly in the US. The model I have is the TP9sa. It's SAO but has a decocker on top of the slide. Some yahoo named New Yankee Marshall suggested rather strongly not to buy one because they're inherently dangerous. Poor dumb bastard never even thought to consider the 2 reasons the SAO and striker-fired pistol would have a decocker. 1, for their European customers that spec'd them for military use, and 2, for the US Market so that you don't have to pull the trigger, ala Glock, when disassembling the pistol in the event that there is a live round in the chamber! ;-)
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Re: new hi power clone

#8

Post by ghostrider »

Okay, I've owned the FEG Hi-Power and fired several. I'd say they were a bit more faithful to the original design than to call them a clone.

I think they've been called clones only because they were not licensed copies, like the FM was.

A book on FEG hi powers is available here:

https://www.amazon.com/Decoding-F%C3%89 ... g+hi+power
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Re: new hi power clone

#9

Post by ghostrider »

rather detailed review here:

https://bhspringsolutions.com/content/ ... hi-power


I do not know anything about BHSpringSolutions, but their site was how I found out about the Tisas Hi power:

https://bhspringsolutions.com/36-browning-hi-power
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Re: new hi power clone

#10

Post by Charles L. Cotton »

ghostrider wrote: Sun Jun 03, 2018 8:35 pm
That looks like a very nice clone. You may have cost me $500. Actually, $550 since I think I'd get the stainless version.
yeah, I think I need a stainless steel one too :-)

Since I'm sold on red dot sights, I wonder if the Hi-Power slide has enough depth to mill it for a low-mount RDS?
not sure; do you know what depth is needed for the mill cut?
There's no minimum depth required. In fact, there are mounts that use the rear sight dovetail, but that obviously makes the sight sit very high. I just like my RDS mounted a low as possible. It's milled lower on my 1911's than on my CZ P-10C.

Chas.
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Re: new hi power clone

#11

Post by Charles L. Cotton »

Rob72 wrote: Mon Jun 04, 2018 8:34 am
Charles L. Cotton wrote: Sun Jun 03, 2018 7:24 pm
ghostrider wrote: Fri Jun 01, 2018 11:45 pm Now that Browning has discontinued the Hi Power, Turkey may be the remaining source for new Hi power clones:

https://www.lkcillc.com/products/9mm/

https://www.brownells.com/firearms/hand ... 18691.aspx
That looks like a very nice clone. You may have cost me $500. Actually, $550 since I think I'd get the stainless version. Since I'm sold on red dot sights, I wonder if the Hi-Power slide has enough depth to mill it for a low-mount RDS?

Chas.
I would check with Tank's, they did great work on 2 HPs for a friend of mine. I know the HP has a lot more material cut from the slide than a 1911, so I'm not sure about the amount of "modifiable real estate".
https://www.tanksrifleshop.com/bhp-services
Thanks, I'll give them a call.

Chas.

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Re: new hi power clone

#12

Post by ghostrider »

looks like Brownells is out of stock on both the blued & stainless models.
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Re: new hi power clone

#13

Post by MaduroBU »

Some might argue that nearly all pistols sold today are Hi-Power clones. My dad taught me to shoot on a Belgian Hi-Power. The P226 is, in my view, the summit of Browning and Saive's masterpiece. The Hi-Power, like the 1911, suffers from an odd safety dictated by dated military doctrine. Field stripping a 226 is far easier, and the 226 design is simpler and more robust. The 226's firing pin block adds safety while the 226s with SAO triggers and honed sears are comparable to match 1911 triggers (which is simply impossible on a Hi-Power).

None of that changes that a 226 is at its core a refined Hi-Power. The 1911 is a solid gun, but the enduring legacy of the Hi-Power is that it created a generation of pistols that exceeded yet still mirrored it. I won't own a Hi-Power until my dad leaves me his (hopefully many years from now), and then only for sentimental reasons. But in a another sense, I do own one.
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