Death to Moon Clips (Maybe)

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kayt00
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Death to Moon Clips (Maybe)

#1

Post by kayt00 » Thu Dec 13, 2018 11:56 am

I recently acquired a Ruger LCR in 9mm and whilst tinkering with it I had a bit of what I think is a self proclaimed moment of genius. To the best of anybodies knowledge, does anybody know if an ejector rod has been devised for a revolver in an auto caliber (rimless) that when pressed rotates a half degree or so so that the star rotates just enough to grab the cartridge rim to eject spent casings thus negating the need for a moon clip to hold cartridges.
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philbo
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Re: Death to Moon Clips (Maybe)

#2

Post by philbo » Thu Dec 13, 2018 12:42 pm

Not exactly as you have described, but to the best of my knowledge the two best attempts to limit moonclips are from Charter Arms on their Pitbull series
Image

and a the model 547 from S&W... I owned one of these and it worked perfectly. No personal experience with the Charter Arms but I like the concept, and your idea is similar.
Image

At the end of the day the lack of sales has been a bigger issue than the mechanism used.


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Re: Death to Moon Clips (Maybe)

#3

Post by kayt00 » Thu Dec 13, 2018 12:49 pm

I'd be curious to find out what killed sales. Seems this would be a great idea to build revolvers in some of the funner calibers, .50AE, .357sig, or maybe .40 S&W for example.
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philbo
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Re: Death to Moon Clips (Maybe)

#4

Post by philbo » Thu Dec 13, 2018 1:15 pm

kayt00 wrote:
Thu Dec 13, 2018 12:49 pm
I'd be curious to find out what killed sales. Seems this would be a great idea to build revolvers in some of the funner calibers, .50AE, .357sig, or maybe .40 S&W for example.
Mostly lack of interest... everyone wants an auto it seems. The S&W 547 was designed around a contract with a French police unit if memory serves. There have been some fun single action revolvers in auto calibers as there is no need for a moon clip at all. My Ruger Bisley in 45 Colt/45 acp is hoot to shoot with the auto rounds... seriously it's fun to shoot with either caliber :fire


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Re: Death to Moon Clips (Maybe)

#5

Post by kayt00 » Thu Dec 13, 2018 3:17 pm

It seems that I'm just that "niche market". I don't know, I'm kind of curious about loading lead and Trail Boss, for a "cowboy action 9mm" load in the LCR. I'd assume the same could be done with the other calibers if there was a wheel gun for those calibers. Why not a .357Sig in a SAA platform. :woohoo
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Re: Death to Moon Clips (Maybe)

#6

Post by Rob72 » Thu Dec 13, 2018 3:56 pm

The 547, and possibly the Mateba Medusa (IIRC) are the best examples of these. A spring-loaded extractor is really the best mechanism, as it offers least possibility for failure.

I do have one of Mark Hartsthorne's conversion cylinders for my SP101, and it is phenominal! Uses them moon clips, tho'... :mrgreen:
http://pinnaclehighperformance.com/cylinder-work/


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kayt00
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Re: Death to Moon Clips (Maybe)

#7

Post by kayt00 » Thu Dec 13, 2018 4:26 pm

But with a star that rotates a half degree when pushed to grab the case rim you eliminate the need for springs that could fail.
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Re: Death to Moon Clips (Maybe)

#8

Post by Boxerrider » Thu Dec 13, 2018 9:01 pm

If it turns to catch the rim, then all six cartridges would have to be placed accurately in their chamber before turning it. Correct, or am I missing something? Seems like it would be tricky to load without dropping some too far in.

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Re: Death to Moon Clips (Maybe)

#9

Post by warnmar10 » Thu Dec 13, 2018 9:08 pm

Boxerrider wrote:
Thu Dec 13, 2018 9:01 pm
If it turns to catch the rim, then all six cartridges would have to be placed accurately in their chamber before turning it. Correct, or am I missing something? Seems like it would be tricky to load without dropping some too far in.
Yes, toss the moon clips and get some sort of precision speed loaders instead.
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Re: Death to Moon Clips (Maybe)

#10

Post by kayt00 » Fri Dec 14, 2018 7:35 am

I wouldn't think so since the headspace in the cylender would control how deep the cartridge actually falls. So in the case of the LCR the cartridge actually sticks out of the back of the cylender about an eighth of an inch (roughly) when not using the moon clips. That being said, the star would only need to turn the half degree in the distance of a sixteenth of an inch. I dont know, Im probably trying to a come up with a solution thats looking for a problem.
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Rob72
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Re: Death to Moon Clips (Maybe)

#11

Post by Rob72 » Fri Dec 14, 2018 8:58 am

kayt00 wrote:
Fri Dec 14, 2018 7:35 am
I wouldn't think so since the headspace in the cylender would control how deep the cartridge actually falls. So in the case of the LCR the cartridge actually sticks out of the back of the cylender about an eighth of an inch (roughly) when not using the moon clips. That being said, the star would only need to turn the half degree in the distance of a sixteenth of an inch. I dont know, Im probably trying to a come up with a solution thats looking for a problem.
;-) To rotate, the proposed star would require one of the following:
  • Spring-driven locking, moved by a cam-groove, cut somewhere in the crane barrel and/or the ejector rod.
  • Detent-based locking system, requiring manual turning of the ejector rod to engage the star with the case rims.
  • Strictly cam-groove driven operation, which would require some pretty expensive machining to engage on closing, disengage on opening, of the cylinder.
Firearms are inherently a balance between intricate function and durability. I'm not saying that it would be impossible to come up with a totally revolutionary ejection system on a revo, for rimless cartridges, but I would say quintrillions of dollars have been spent developing the generally reliable system we have today (rimmed and rimless).

I'm not a huge revolver fan, and less so a moon-clip fan. But. The two revos I have both have multi-caliber, rimless, cylinders that use moon-clips, because after yeeeears of research and searching, that's the most reliable and economical solution currently available.

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