What Would Be The BEST 30-30 Lever Rifle

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Re: What Would Be The BEST 30-30 Lever Rifle

#31

Post by puma guy » Thu Sep 19, 2019 8:50 pm

carlson1 wrote:
Thu Sep 19, 2019 8:06 pm
Well the Winchester deal didn’t work. I am new to lever actions, but learned quickly I am not fond of the cross bolt safety. The same man who had the Winchester had a Marlin 336 pre-lock. The Marlin is a little heavier than the Winchester. I am guessing it from the 1970’s or 1980’s. Not a mark on it. I am not to for sure how to go about deciding the year etcetera. Here are a few pictures and thanks to everyone for your help.

8070FA50-EFDF-42B6-A515-666CE431C995.jpeg
CA64456B-3C64-410F-A11F-2B18CE023E64.jpeg
23222D03-3DBB-446B-88A7-D17EAC9B8145.jpeg
Very nice looking Marlin. I feel I must warn you though, having now been exposed you may develop a case of Marlinitis! We'll need a range report! Here's the S/N index

http://leeroysramblings.com/Gun%20Arti ... _code.html
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Re: What Would Be The BEST 30-30 Lever Rifle

#32

Post by carlson1 » Thu Sep 19, 2019 8:54 pm

puma guy wrote:
Thu Sep 19, 2019 8:50 pm
Very nice looking Marlin. I feel I must warn you though, having now been exposed you may develop a case of Marlinitis! We'll need a range report! Here's the S/N index

http://leeroysramblings.com/Gun%20Arti ... _code.html
Thank you. I will check the serial number in a little bit. I have seen the “JM Stamped” mentioned. What does that mean and how do you know if it is “JM Stamped” rifle.
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Re: What Would Be The BEST 30-30 Lever Rifle

#33

Post by puma guy » Thu Sep 19, 2019 9:02 pm

carlson1 wrote:
Thu Sep 19, 2019 8:54 pm
puma guy wrote:
Thu Sep 19, 2019 8:50 pm
Very nice looking Marlin. I feel I must warn you though, having now been exposed you may develop a case of Marlinitis! We'll need a range report! Here's the S/N index

http://leeroysramblings.com/Gun%20Arti ... _code.html
Thank you. I will check the serial number in a little bit. I have seen the “JM Stamped” mentioned. What does that mean and how do you know if it is “JM Stamped” rifle.
The JM proof mark stands for John Marlin and will be on the barrel just in front of the receiver. After Remington started manufacturing them the barrels were marked with REM in the same location. Being that your 336 has no cross bolt safety it was made before 1983 or so and is a JM.
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Re: What Would Be The BEST 30-30 Lever Rifle

#34

Post by carlson1 » Thu Sep 19, 2019 9:11 pm

puma guy wrote:
Thu Sep 19, 2019 9:02 pm
carlson1 wrote:
Thu Sep 19, 2019 8:54 pm
puma guy wrote:
Thu Sep 19, 2019 8:50 pm
Very nice looking Marlin. I feel I must warn you though, having now been exposed you may develop a case of Marlinitis! We'll need a range report! Here's the S/N index

http://leeroysramblings.com/Gun%20Arti ... _code.html
Thank you. I will check the serial number in a little bit. I have seen the “JM Stamped” mentioned. What does that mean and how do you know if it is “JM Stamped” rifle.
The JM proof mark stands for John Marlin and will be on the barrel just in front of the receiver. After Remington started manufacturing them the barrels were marked with REM in the same location. Being that your 336 has no cross bolt safety it was made before 1983 or so and is a JM.
It is a 1979 model. It was less money than the Winchester and at this point it seems it worked out better for me as long as it turns out to shoot straight and and not around the corner. :thumbs2:
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Re: What Would Be The BEST 30-30 Lever Rifle

#35

Post by The Annoyed Man » Thu Sep 19, 2019 10:37 pm

carlson1 wrote:
Thu Sep 19, 2019 9:11 pm
puma guy wrote:
Thu Sep 19, 2019 9:02 pm
carlson1 wrote:
Thu Sep 19, 2019 8:54 pm
puma guy wrote:
Thu Sep 19, 2019 8:50 pm
Very nice looking Marlin. I feel I must warn you though, having now been exposed you may develop a case of Marlinitis! We'll need a range report! Here's the S/N index

http://leeroysramblings.com/Gun%20Arti ... _code.html
Thank you. I will check the serial number in a little bit. I have seen the “JM Stamped” mentioned. What does that mean and how do you know if it is “JM Stamped” rifle.
The JM proof mark stands for John Marlin and will be on the barrel just in front of the receiver. After Remington started manufacturing them the barrels were marked with REM in the same location. Being that your 336 has no cross bolt safety it was made before 1983 or so and is a JM.
It is a 1979 model. It was less money than the Winchester and at this point it seems it worked out better for me as long as it turns out to shoot straight and and not around the corner. :thumbs2:
Congratulations, and welcome to the lever addiction! What barrel length is your new rifle?

Remington moved Marlin's production line to the Remington Ilion plant in 2007. So any Marlin built 2006 and earlier should have a JM stamped barrel. I read somewhere that most of the old Marlin employees did not make the move, and all the little tweaks that made a Marlin great was institutional knowledge held in the heads of the people who didn’t make the move. So no valid updated engineering drawings existed to make the move either, and Remington’s employees had to basically learn how to build a Marlin rifle from scratch. That’s why my 336BL, which was manufactured in 2016, NINE YEARS after the move, still was not manufactured up to the old Marlin quality standards.
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Re: What Would Be The BEST 30-30 Lever Rifle

#36

Post by carlson1 » Thu Sep 19, 2019 10:51 pm

Tam it is 20” and when you get to feeling better I would appreciate an invitation to come over for a lesson or two like when you came over when I bought my first AR, but I would come to you seeing how you are much older now. :evil2: :cheers2:
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Re: What Would Be The BEST 30-30 Lever Rifle

#37

Post by puma guy » Fri Sep 20, 2019 9:01 am

The Annoyed Man wrote:
Thu Sep 19, 2019 10:37 pm
carlson1 wrote:
Thu Sep 19, 2019 9:11 pm
puma guy wrote:
Thu Sep 19, 2019 9:02 pm
carlson1 wrote:
Thu Sep 19, 2019 8:54 pm
puma guy wrote:
Thu Sep 19, 2019 8:50 pm
Very nice looking Marlin. I feel I must warn you though, having now been exposed you may develop a case of Marlinitis! We'll need a range report! Here's the S/N index

http://leeroysramblings.com/Gun%20Arti ... _code.html
Thank you. I will check the serial number in a little bit. I have seen the “JM Stamped” mentioned. What does that mean and how do you know if it is “JM Stamped” rifle.
The JM proof mark stands for John Marlin and will be on the barrel just in front of the receiver. After Remington started manufacturing them the barrels were marked with REM in the same location. Being that your 336 has no cross bolt safety it was made before 1983 or so and is a JM.
It is a 1979 model. It was less money than the Winchester and at this point it seems it worked out better for me as long as it turns out to shoot straight and and not around the corner. :thumbs2:
Congratulations, and welcome to the lever addiction! What barrel length is your new rifle?

Remington moved Marlin's production line to the Remington Ilion plant in 2007. So any Marlin built 2006 and earlier should have a JM stamped barrel. I read somewhere that most of the old Marlin employees did not make the move, and all the little tweaks that made a Marlin great was institutional knowledge held in the heads of the people who didn’t make the move. So no valid updated engineering drawings existed to make the move either, and Remington’s employees had to basically learn how to build a Marlin rifle from scratch. That’s why my 336BL, which was manufactured in 2016, NINE YEARS after the move, still was not manufactured up to the old Marlin quality standards.
TAM, I have to take issue with your statment no drawings were available for Remington to reference. Without reiterating some correspondence I had with the fellow who was in charge of maintaining Marlins machinery, Marlin used modern technology for engineering and design documentation and it was all provided to Remington. Remington's management took an arrogant approach regarding Marlin employees' ability over Rem's; basically the CEO inferred monkeys could do the job and as a result only about 200 Marlin employees were offered relocation, most to a different plant not involved in lever guns and they were let go after a couple of years.Remington wouldn't allow Marlin employees to help in removing, transporting and reinstalling equipment to the Ilion plant. Remington dropped a 10 ton piece of equipment that made barrels. It is true that the lever guns require skilled fit and finish ability and the Marlin folks tried to transfer their knowledge and for whatever reason that just didn't get through. Many of the problems with Remlins are just basic poor workmanship. Leaving coarse machining marks, metal filings, misaligned and canted barrels, non perpendicular sight dovetails, poor wood to metal fit. And poor quality control that allows them to leave the factory in the first place. Those type errors don't require a drawing to prevent them. My take, from what I was told, is there were people at Marlin who's skill put them in a position to make the lever guns and Remington wanted to produce them as cheaply as possible and thought no real skill was necessary. I think that's why any lever rifle they send out now is hit or miss depending on a particular individual's abilities and pride. The Model 39 .22 lever guns were dropped as a standard item, since they took even more skill in manufacturing and only the best craftsman produce them now as a custom item now.
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Re: What Would Be The BEST 30-30 Lever Rifle

#38

Post by The Annoyed Man » Fri Sep 20, 2019 11:48 am

puma guy wrote:
Fri Sep 20, 2019 9:01 am
[Remington's management took an arrogant approach regarding Marlin employees' ability over Rem's; basically the CEO inferred monkeys could do the job and as a result only about 200 Marlin employees were offered relocation, most to a different plant not involved in lever guns and they were let go after a couple of years.Remington wouldn't allow Marlin employees to help in removing, transporting and reinstalling equipment to the Ilion plant. Remington dropped a 10 ton piece of equipment that made barrels. It is true that the lever guns require skilled fit and finish ability and the Marlin folks tried to transfer their knowledge and for whatever reason that just didn't get through. Many of the problems with Remlins are just basic poor workmanship. Leaving coarse machining marks, metal filings, misaligned and canted barrels, non perpendicular sight dovetails, poor wood to metal fit. And poor quality control that allows them to leave the factory in the first place. Those type errors don't require a drawing to prevent them. My take, from what I was told, is there were people at Marlin who's skill put them in a position to make the lever guns and Remington wanted to produce them as cheaply as possible and thought no real skill was necessary. I think that's why any lever rifle they send out now is hit or miss depending on a particular individual's abilities and pride. The Model 39 .22 lever guns were dropped as a standard item, since they took even more skill in manufacturing and only the best craftsman produce them now as a custom item now.
This actually dovetails with most of what I’d heard. I don’t remember where I read the information about engineering drawings, but I remember that it was from someone who wasn’t favorably disposed to the way Remington handled the change. But overall, yes, Remington suffered from the conceit that they could build a good lever action without attention to the details of craftsmanship.

My own 336 is a case in point. It actually shot well pretty much out of the box....but there were issues. Wood to metal fit was poor. Stamped checkering wasn’t very good. The magazine tube fit was loose and canted off to one side. The OEM front sight wasn’t worth a cup of warm spit, and the rear wasn’t a whole lot better. The side loading gate was so stiff as to be unusable, turning the rifle into a single shot for all practical purposes. In other words, the barrel ...the heart of any rifle...was well made, and the lever action functioned as advertised and the trigger was acceptable. So function was fine, but the execution was crap. For the roughly $650 I pad for the rifle, I should have gotten decent execution. I upgraded the sights, replaced the loading gate, and mounted a scope. I don’t count the cost of the scope ($599) or rings because I already owned it, But the upgraded iron sights were $180 from XS Sight Systems, and the upgraded loading gate was $42 direct from Ranger Point Precision. I didn’t have to pay a gunsmith for the loading gate installation because my son is a former gunsmith and did the work for me.

The magazine tube is still wonkey to this day and always shoots loose. I can live with the rifle, and I enjoy shooting it, but I’m wondering if there isn’t an aftermarket clamp of some kind that will clamp the magazine tube to the barrel, instead of the pretty useless dovetailed stud system currently in use. I did a more detailed write up here: https://www.annoyedman.com/firearms/lev ... mlins.html. You can see what I mean about the way the magazine tube attaches to the muzzle end with a dovetailed stud, if you zoom in to this picture:
Image
I’d like to stick a clamp just aft of the front sight base.
9002427F-34DA-45EC-97E8-B6EE21ED7553.jpeg
Edited to add.... despite my complaints about the build quality of my Marlin, it remains one of my favorite rifles .... not so much because it’s a Marlin, but because it’s a lever action. If Henry ever comes out with a blued version of their side-loader, I’ll snap one up for sure.
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Re: What Would Be The BEST 30-30 Lever Rifle

#39

Post by puma guy » Fri Sep 20, 2019 8:45 pm

Marlin, it remains one of my favorite rifles .... not so much because it’s a Marlin, but because it’s a lever action. If Henry ever comes out with a blued version of their side-loader, I’ll snap one up for sure.
There you go! Henry Rifles! It doesn't take a century of tradition and archived drawings to make a quality lever action rifle. Just a commitment to quality, pride in workmanship and leadership in management. :thumbs2: I still love my Marlins, though!
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Re: What Would Be The BEST 30-30 Lever Rifle

#40

Post by C-dub » Sat Sep 21, 2019 6:45 pm

The Annoyed Man wrote:
Fri Sep 20, 2019 11:48 am

Edited to add.... despite my complaints about the build quality of my Marlin, it remains one of my favorite rifles .... not so much because it’s a Marlin, but because it’s a lever action. If Henry ever comes out with a blued version of their side-loader, I’ll snap one up for sure.
Image

The entire thing isn't blued, but still. Even Hickock liked it!
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Re: What Would Be The BEST 30-30 Lever Rifle

#41

Post by The Annoyed Man » Sat Sep 21, 2019 9:01 pm

C-dub wrote:
Sat Sep 21, 2019 6:45 pm
The Annoyed Man wrote:
Fri Sep 20, 2019 11:48 am

Edited to add.... despite my complaints about the build quality of my Marlin, it remains one of my favorite rifles .... not so much because it’s a Marlin, but because it’s a lever action. If Henry ever comes out with a blued version of their side-loader, I’ll snap one up for sure.
Image

The entire thing isn't blued, but still. Even Hickock liked it!
Yeah, it’s a nice rifle, but I just don’t care for the brass receiver look. That’s why I want an all blued version.
Give me Liberty, or I'll get up and get it myself.—Hookalakah Meshobbab
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Re: What Would Be The BEST 30-30 Lever Rifle

#42

Post by C-dub » Sat Sep 21, 2019 9:19 pm

The Annoyed Man wrote:
Sat Sep 21, 2019 9:01 pm
C-dub wrote:
Sat Sep 21, 2019 6:45 pm
The Annoyed Man wrote:
Fri Sep 20, 2019 11:48 am

Edited to add.... despite my complaints about the build quality of my Marlin, it remains one of my favorite rifles .... not so much because it’s a Marlin, but because it’s a lever action. If Henry ever comes out with a blued version of their side-loader, I’ll snap one up for sure.
Image

The entire thing isn't blued, but still. Even Hickock liked it!
Yeah, it’s a nice rifle, but I just don’t care for the brass receiver look. That’s why I want an all blued version.
I get it. I have this one in .44 mag my wife gave me for our 10th Anniversary.
Image

And this one I got from QB a year or two ago. Evil Roy in .22LR
Image

I do have a plain blued one in .22LR, but it was my dad's garage gun and he didn't take care of it. Much rust and pitting. I'm not even sure it'll function properly any more. I thought about getting one of the stainless or chromed ones before I got the Evil Roy. Now, if I get another one it'll probably be all blued. They have several to choose from including shotguns. However, uh oh, look what I found.
Image
I am not and have never been a LEO. My avatar is in honor of my friend, Dallas Police Sargent Michael Smith, who was murdered along with four other officers in Dallas on 7.7.2016.
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Re: What Would Be The BEST 30-30 Lever Rifle

#43

Post by The Annoyed Man » Sat Sep 21, 2019 9:33 pm

C-dub wrote:
Sat Sep 21, 2019 9:19 pm
The Annoyed Man wrote:
Sat Sep 21, 2019 9:01 pm
C-dub wrote:
Sat Sep 21, 2019 6:45 pm
The Annoyed Man wrote:
Fri Sep 20, 2019 11:48 am

Edited to add.... despite my complaints about the build quality of my Marlin, it remains one of my favorite rifles .... not so much because it’s a Marlin, but because it’s a lever action. If Henry ever comes out with a blued version of their side-loader, I’ll snap one up for sure.
Image

The entire thing isn't blued, but still. Even Hickock liked it!
Yeah, it’s a nice rifle, but I just don’t care for the brass receiver look. That’s why I want an all blued version.
I get it. I have this one in .44 mag my wife gave me for our 10th Anniversary.
Image

And this one I got from QB a year or two ago. Evil Roy in .22LR
Image

I do have a plain blued one in .22LR, but it was my dad's garage gun and he didn't take care of it. Much rust and pitting. I'm not even sure it'll function properly any more. I thought about getting one of the stainless or chromed ones before I got the Evil Roy. Now, if I get another one it'll probably be all blued. They have several to choose from including shotguns. However, uh oh, look what I found.
Image
Those two aren’t side-loading, though. I do have a Henry Octagon Frontier in .22LR/.22Long/.22Short that I absolutely love. But if I get another .30-30, or maybe a .35 Remington, I’ll want a side loader. Henry's going to have to give in to my demands eventually. :lol:
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Re: What Would Be The BEST 30-30 Lever Rifle

#44

Post by Liberty » Sun Sep 22, 2019 9:26 am

How well will a brass receiver hold up over time? Brass concerns me that it wouldn't hold up with lots of shooting. A Henry is an heirloom quality that I would expect to outlast me.
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Re: What Would Be The BEST 30-30 Lever Rifle

#45

Post by The Annoyed Man » Sun Sep 22, 2019 1:32 pm

Liberty wrote:
Sun Sep 22, 2019 9:26 am
How well will a brass receiver hold up over time? Brass concerns me that it wouldn't hold up with lots of shooting. A Henry is an heirloom quality that I would expect to outlast me.
The Henry brass receivers are just fine from an endurance perspective. Both of my Mossberg shotguns have fairly light aluminum receivers. AR10s have aluminum receivers, and they shoot higher pressure cartridges than lever actions do. A receiver doesn’t have to be steel to be safe. I just don’t like the way brass receivers look. I prefer the more subdued look of bluing, or color case hardening.
Give me Liberty, or I'll get up and get it myself.—Hookalakah Meshobbab
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My dream is to have lived my life so well that future generations of leftists will demand my name be removed from buildings.

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