So you want to buy a firearm during a pandemic

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Scott B.
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Re: So you want to buy a firearm during a pandemic

#16

Post by Scott B. » Sat Mar 21, 2020 5:24 pm

The Annoyed Man wrote:
Sat Mar 21, 2020 4:30 pm
Scott B. wrote:
Sat Mar 21, 2020 11:47 am
SewTexas wrote:
Sat Mar 21, 2020 11:25 am
this doesn't make any sense, the law says at most 3 days to reject....nowhere in there does it say 3.5 weeks.
if the rejection doesn't come in 3 days the FFL should make the transfer.
Any FFL with considerable skin in the game is not going to gamble their federally issued license. FBI says adhere to the Brady Date given. Until there's a clarification, FFL who chose to gamble are risking suspension of their license at a minimum. We believe FBI to be in error, but you can't beat the ride.
I’m not criticizing, I’m just making sure I understood your reply. Are you saying that you would, or you wouldn’t transfer the gun after three days of no reply from NICS?

2nd question: is there anything specific in the law that allows NICS to unilaterally change the waiting period requirements?
The FBI is saying to go by their issued Brady Dates no matter what they are. They seem to be interpreting a claimed inability to complete a 'business day' because of some state offices being closed. What specific offices those are or what they have to do with a federal NICS check they're not saying. Nor is there any explanation why a day 3.5 weeks ahead is kosher but the statutory 3 biz days is not.

It stinks.
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srothstein
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Re: So you want to buy a firearm during a pandemic

#17

Post by srothstein » Sat Mar 21, 2020 6:08 pm

Scott B. wrote:
Sat Mar 21, 2020 5:24 pm
The FBI is saying to go by their issued Brady Dates no matter what they are. They seem to be interpreting a claimed inability to complete a 'business day' because of some state offices being closed. What specific offices those are or what they have to do with a federal NICS check they're not saying. Nor is there any explanation why a day 3.5 weeks ahead is kosher but the statutory 3 biz days is not.
You got me curious so I went looking. The important question is the definition of three business days. Consider how many businesses are now closed by executive order for some unknown period. Anyway, it is defined in the law and it is not the definition you would think.

18 USC 922 (t) (1)(B)(ii) defines a business day as a say that state offices are open. I cannot find anything that limits it to the state you are located in, though I would think a court would probably hold that definition. On the FBI NICS information page, it says they go by the state of the transaction if the state is not one of the POC states. Texas is not a POC state, which means that our FFLs go to the FBI for the check instead of to a state office.

I know that our state offices are open for business since I have to go to work on Monday. Well sort of. My office is on a combination of skeleton crew and work from home. Most of us are working from home and only the minimum needed to meet with people coming in are actually in the office. My agency was fairly forward thinking and issued everyone laptops the last time we got computers instead of desktops because they want to push towards teleworking anyway. I don't know about DPS and if they did this.

This brings it down to (I am guessing here) that if DPS is maintaining full processing in their offices that the FBI would work with, we should get it in the normal three business days. I have no idea how DPS is doing now, but the fact that Gov. Abbott has extended car registrations (DMV) and driver's licenses (DPS) might be an indication that the offices are on reduced staff. That might be enough for the FBI to justify an extended check.

As was mentioned by someone else, this is a great reason to have an LTC now.
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Re: So you want to buy a firearm during a pandemic

#18

Post by joe817 » Sat Mar 21, 2020 10:11 pm

I've never been smart enough to predict when the a problem arises, or TEOTWAWKI. Now, at the first time I notice that something ain't right...I mean the very first inkling, that is when I have bought a gun, or some ammo...in the past. I have to admit,I was caught flat footed during the extended ammo shortage of the early Obama years. And I learned my lesson.
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Re: So you want to buy a firearm during a pandemic

#19

Post by JRG » Sun Mar 22, 2020 12:03 am

I have a small collection of guns, mostly handguns with one AR15 and a 22lr rifle. I have plenty of ammo for these weapons, but I did procrastinate with this pandemic. I have wanted a Mossberg Shockwave as a bedroom gun, but now that I am back in Texas I have noticed that Grab a Gun (where I purchase 90% of my guns) is totally out of all models of Shockwaves and TAC 14 models also. Also noticed that they are out of most models of the Sig 365.

Hopefully, they will regain stock soon. Perhaps I can work a deal where I give them some toilet paper and make it an even swap???? :hurry:

Joe


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Re: So you want to buy a firearm during a pandemic

#20

Post by abom2 » Sun Mar 22, 2020 7:26 am

The following two items are posted on Grab-a-gun as of last night-

"Due to COVID-19 and State Government Orders to close, we are pausing firearms shipments to the following states, as well as not accepting new firearms orders for these states at this time CA,CT,IL,NJ,NV,NY,PA"

"Due To High Order Volume Orders May Take 7-10 Days To Ship - Firearm Shipments to CA,CT,IL,NJ,NV,NY,PA are Paused"

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Re: So you want to buy a firearm during a pandemic

#21

Post by The Annoyed Man » Sun Mar 22, 2020 7:05 pm

joe817 wrote:
Sat Mar 21, 2020 10:11 pm
I've never been smart enough to predict when the a problem arises, or TEOTWAWKI. Now, at the first time I notice that something ain't right...I mean the very first inkling, that is when I have bought a gun, or some ammo...in the past. I have to admit,I was caught flat footed during the extended ammo shortage of the early Obama years. And I learned my lesson.
JRG wrote:
Sun Mar 22, 2020 12:03 am
I have a small collection of guns, mostly handguns with one AR15 and a 22lr rifle. I have plenty of ammo for these weapons, but I did procrastinate with this pandemic. I have wanted a Mossberg Shockwave as a bedroom gun, but now that I am back in Texas I have noticed that Grab a Gun (where I purchase 90% of my guns) is totally out of all models of Shockwaves and TAC 14 models also. Also noticed that they are out of most models of the Sig 365.

Hopefully, they will regain stock soon. Perhaps I can work a deal where I give them some toilet paper and make it an even swap???? :hurry:

Joe
When I first got into active prepping with something more than a strictly casual interest, it was about 6-7 years ago. I was already into guns and owned a number of them at the time, so I started by buying enough ammo to defend that which I did not yet have.....STORED FOOD, and other survival supplies. Sounds kind of dumb, doesn’t it? You can’t eat boolits. And if your plan is to gun-up and take someone else's food, stop to consider that THEY might have prepared for YOU even better than you did for THEM, and your idea then makes you both:

A. A really bad person from the get-go, so you deserve whatever bad happens to you, and

B. A terminally stupid person from the get-go, so you deserve whatever bad happens to you.

You really need to prepare as if you’ll never again be able to enter a supermarket. The odds are, that won’t be the case. Even if there is a TOTAL social collapse, there’s likely to be open-air markets eventually, etc., but you can’t guarantee that. So stored food isn’t enough. If things are bad enough, you have to be prepared to feed yourself AFTER your stored foods run out. That means a garden, maybe some livestock....and THAT means at the very minimum a pretty large suburban lot. So do you have enough land? And then there’s medical preparedness, and preparing to educate the family's children, etc., etc.

Being serious about it is a never ending quest, but it doesn’t have to hurt. Just determine to pursue self-sufficiency, and then get after it, incrementally, as you can afford to do it.

We were not 100% ready for this particular crisis either, but we were WAY more prepared than we would have been before we started. I have started a list of things we either hadn’t thought of, things we had thought of but hadn’t gotten around to yet, and things we DID do but could have done better. You learn by doing, right?

Our biggest shortfalls were:

1. My wife and I had about 3-4 months worth of food stored up for ourselves, just the two of us. But then 3 years ago, we bought a house with our son and DIL, and we never updated our long term food storage to account for additional mouths .... until about 3-4 weeks ago. I saw this coming, and instead if immediately ordering another 1000 rounds of each caliber (I already have plenty for now), I said nope, we gotta our butts to Costco and add some things to our stores. And I got our son and DIL to add extra purchases to their regular grocery shopping. We now have enough stored to feed all 6 of us for about 3 months....maybe 4 if we get creative and stretch things out a bit.

2. We have not established a garden. Yet. I’m going to be remedying that fact this week.

3. We aren’t in a position to buy a rural property removed from a metropolitan area yet. There’s nothing I can do about that for now.

So, I’ll do like I’ve been doing and keep the idea of buying property alive by researching what’s currently available. I’ll build my garden now. And I’ll continue adding storable foods as I can afford to do so, until I’ve reached my goal of 2 years of food per person in our household.

Until I can have my own rural property, that’s the best I can do for now.

All preparation progress is good progress.
• Give me Liberty or I'll get up and get it myself.
• I don't carry because of the odds, I carry because of the stakes.
• My dream is to have lived my life so well that future generations of leftists will demand my name be removed from buildings.
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Re: So you want to buy a firearm during a pandemic

#22

Post by JRG » Mon Mar 23, 2020 12:13 am

The Annoyed Man wrote:
Sun Mar 22, 2020 7:05 pm
joe817 wrote:
Sat Mar 21, 2020 10:11 pm
I've never been smart enough to predict when the a problem arises, or TEOTWAWKI. Now, at the first time I notice that something ain't right...I mean the very first inkling, that is when I have bought a gun, or some ammo...in the past. I have to admit,I was caught flat footed during the extended ammo shortage of the early Obama years. And I learned my lesson.
JRG wrote:
Sun Mar 22, 2020 12:03 am
I have a small collection of guns, mostly handguns with one AR15 and a 22lr rifle. I have plenty of ammo for these weapons, but I did procrastinate with this pandemic. I have wanted a Mossberg Shockwave as a bedroom gun, but now that I am back in Texas I have noticed that Grab a Gun (where I purchase 90% of my guns) is totally out of all models of Shockwaves and TAC 14 models also. Also noticed that they are out of most models of the Sig 365.

Hopefully, they will regain stock soon. Perhaps I can work a deal where I give them some toilet paper and make it an even swap???? :hurry:

Joe
When I first got into active prepping with something more than a strictly casual interest, it was about 6-7 years ago. I was already into guns and owned a number of them at the time, so I started by buying enough ammo to defend that which I did not yet have.....STORED FOOD, and other survival supplies. Sounds kind of dumb, doesn’t it? You can’t eat boolits. And if your plan is to gun-up and take someone else's food, stop to consider that THEY might have prepared for YOU even better than you did for THEM, and your idea then makes you both:

A. A really bad person from the get-go, so you deserve whatever bad happens to you, and

B. A terminally stupid person from the get-go, so you deserve whatever bad happens to you.

You really need to prepare as if you’ll never again be able to enter a supermarket. The odds are, that won’t be the case. Even if there is a TOTAL social collapse, there’s likely to be open-air markets eventually, etc., but you can’t guarantee that. So stored food isn’t enough. If things are bad enough, you have to be prepared to feed yourself AFTER your stored foods run out. That means a garden, maybe some livestock....and THAT means at the very minimum a pretty large suburban lot. So do you have enough land? And then there’s medical preparedness, and preparing to educate the family's children, etc., etc.

Being serious about it is a never ending quest, but it doesn’t have to hurt. Just determine to pursue self-sufficiency, and then get after it, incrementally, as you can afford to do it.

We were not 100% ready for this particular crisis either, but we were WAY more prepared than we would have been before we started. I have started a list of things we either hadn’t thought of, things we had thought of but hadn’t gotten around to yet, and things we DID do but could have done better. You learn by doing, right?

Our biggest shortfalls were:

1. My wife and I had about 3-4 months worth of food stored up for ourselves, just the two of us. But then 3 years ago, we bought a house with our son and DIL, and we never updated our long term food storage to account for additional mouths .... until about 3-4 weeks ago. I saw this coming, and instead if immediately ordering another 1000 rounds of each caliber (I already have plenty for now), I said nope, we gotta our butts to Costco and add some things to our stores. And I got our son and DIL to add extra purchases to their regular grocery shopping. We now have enough stored to feed all 6 of us for about 3 months....maybe 4 if we get creative and stretch things out a bit.

2. We have not established a garden. Yet. I’m going to be remedying that fact this week.

3. We aren’t in a position to buy a rural property removed from a metropolitan area yet. There’s nothing I can do about that for now.

So, I’ll do like I’ve been doing and keep the idea of buying property alive by researching what’s currently available. I’ll build my garden now. And I’ll continue adding storable foods as I can afford to do so, until I’ve reached my goal of 2 years of food per person in our household.

Until I can have my own rural property, that’s the best I can do for now.

All preparation progress is good progress.
Don't forget to rotate your stock of food.

Joe

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The Annoyed Man
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Re: So you want to buy a firearm during a pandemic

#23

Post by The Annoyed Man » Mon Mar 23, 2020 9:15 am

JRG wrote:
Mon Mar 23, 2020 12:13 am
Don't forget to rotate your stock of food.

Joe
:thumbs2: Already on top of it.
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• I don't carry because of the odds, I carry because of the stakes.
• My dream is to have lived my life so well that future generations of leftists will demand my name be removed from buildings.
• Independent Minarchist.

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Re: So you want to buy a firearm during a pandemic

#24

Post by txglock21 » Mon Mar 23, 2020 9:45 am

I know this is a thread drift, but TAM started it. "rlol" I too started "prepping" for a couple of years now. Being in the middle of Metroplex, they won't let me keep any farm animals other than chickens, so I got chickens. Good on eggs. I have planted only fruit trees and a garden in my backyard and have been canning the fruits and veggies. I also hunt and fish as often as I can and process my own at home. Vacuum seal almost everything. Also the usual Sam's Club stock-ups like can goods, TOILET PAPER, water, etc.. Guns and ammo is a given. :coolgleamA: Needless to say other than a few perishables like milk, I estimate I could live in home only for about six months. Now if they would just let me keep a cow in my back yard...... Stay safe everyone!
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Re: So you want to buy a firearm during a pandemic

#25

Post by KC5AV » Mon Mar 23, 2020 2:15 pm

I noticed on Saturday that all of the Brady dates given were April 15th. Were others getting different dates?
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Re: So you want to buy a firearm during a pandemic

#26

Post by Scott B. » Mon Mar 23, 2020 2:20 pm

NICS is running 'okay' today. Earlier we were at about 30% clearance rate for background checks, but now it's up to about 50%.

Ammo and guns still being crushed on sales.
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Re: So you want to buy a firearm during a pandemic

#27

Post by SigM4 » Mon Mar 23, 2020 2:29 pm

Scott B. wrote:
Mon Mar 23, 2020 2:20 pm
NICS is running 'okay' today. Earlier we were at about 30% clearance rate for background checks, but now it's up to about 50%.

Ammo and guns still being crushed on sales.
I’m surprised there’s much inventory left on either.
Last edited by SigM4 on Mon Mar 23, 2020 2:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: So you want to buy a firearm during a pandemic

#28

Post by Rafe » Mon Mar 23, 2020 2:48 pm

Scott B. wrote:
Mon Mar 23, 2020 2:20 pm
Ammo and guns still being crushed on sales.
I'm a little worried that Obama may lose his single-day title of "Greatest Gun Salesman of All Time." 'Course, as an administration, I think he'll be difficult to dethrone for the title anytime soon. But I'd kinda like to see him keep the title for both the sprint and the marathon. Still, once this all plays out the numbers, NICS and Shooting Sports Foundation retail data, are going to tell the usual gungrabbers a scary story of how America actually reacts to a systemic crisis, and show that tens of thousands probable first time gun owners were just added to the voter list.

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Re: So you want to buy a firearm during a pandemic

#29

Post by Scott B. » Mon Mar 23, 2020 3:03 pm

For the long haul, Obama is the sales champion. For single, short period panic...corona for the win. Nobody has seen anything like this.
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Re: So you want to buy a firearm during a pandemic

#30

Post by Rafe » Mon Mar 23, 2020 4:16 pm

This just in from John Farnam to his email list. https://defense-training.com/about.
John Farnam wrote: Friends in NJ tell me that the NJSP is still processing “permits-to-purchase,” but state employees in Trenton (NJ State Capitol) who process applications are all at home!

As in NY, that “state function” is closed, indefinitely!

NJ’s governor yesterday closed-down the NICS system, making NICS approvals unavailable, but the move was a redundancy, because permits are not being processed anyway.

NJ gun retailers still have a few guns left for sale, but they may as well not be there, because they can’t be legally sold anyway!

Ammunition is unavailable, anywhere in the state.

In CA, first-time gun-buyers, the few who can actually find a gun for sale, are discovering they have to wait ten days before they can take possession.

Some has asked that if they pay extra, can the “waiting period” be waived!

Of course, they are told “No,” in no uncertain terms!

Others has asked if they can “borrow” a gun from a friend. They are informed that “borrowing a gun” is absolutely illegal in CA.

In addition, in CA a NICS check is necessary in order to even buy ammunition, if you can find any for sale!

Accordingly, the unarmed in those states (and most others) will retain that status for the foreseeable future!

At this point, there is little anyone can do to help them!
Hang in there, Scott, and :txflag:

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