New Law Tactical folder Install - Stove Pipe and fail to eject

[NordicTexan]

I recently got a law tactical folder for my AR pistol from Primary Arms. They were great, shipped it out right away and even with all that is going on, I got it in a couple of days delivered.

The install was fairly easy, and seemed to go off with out a hitch. For background, I have two AR pistols, The first is in 8.5" in 5.56 and a full upper and pistol lower from Palmetto State Armory. It has a blow forward gas deflector of PSA design. The second is similar, but 8.5" in 300 Blackout, also upper and lowers from PSA. It has a standard compensator. Both guns have functioned well for months with hundreds of rounds down them. The 300 Black out has cycled on both super sonic and sub sonic rounds but all the plinking target ammo is supersonic so that is what has been mostly used.

I installed in folder and bolt extension piece on the 5.56. First three rounds failed to eject. Took it apart and checked things, then it cycled for about 10 rounds, and then failed again repeatedly when fired fast. So swapped out the upper for the 300 blackout, and moved the bolt extension, and with super sonic ammo, it worked great, slow and fast fire. I did not have any sub sonic ammo with me so we didnt check that.

Both are pistol lowers with standard milspec parts. They both have carbine buffers. my working theory is that the bolt extension is 2.2oz. and maybe this has raised the bolt mass from 3.5 to 5.7oz. I am thinking that that the bolt is to heavy for the gas coming around in combination with the standard spring? Does that sound right? I am thinking it worked on the Blackout supersonic, since it must have more gas coming around. maybe it was built so that is had enough gas coming around for subsonic rounds? I dont know, just guessing here.

If it is, what can I do? I would much have the folder on the 5.56. I dont have an adjustable gas block, as its just the standard low profile one. Is a lighter buffer spring and option?

anyone have any experience with this. My first time it trying to diagnose and correct AR issues so any help is welcome.

[bobby]

MMMM the PSA/PSA worked the ?/PSA didnt...

take a weight out of the buffer on the 556 and try again repeat as needed..

[teraph]

NordicTexan,
The extra weight added by the BCG extension will affect your carrier travel speed. I actually had the inverse issue (10.5in 5.56 pistol), where it would cycle too fast. Adding the extra weight actually helped in my case.

For your issue, you are likely correct that there is not enough gas to cycle your action reliably. I would look into either a lighter buffer or a lighter # spring. I believe Sprinco might have a few in a couple different weights. These are both cheaper options than getting a light weight BCG or installing an adjustable gas block.

[NordicTexan]

Thanks.

I checked out Sprinco. Nice that they are a Texas company. I think I am going to go down the reduced power spring option as its low cost, so not much harm and giving it a try and see if it works. I will post when it comes in and I get a chance to try it.

Oh, and both builds have PSA uppers and lowers, one had an assembled lower, and one was a lower kit. Basically they were all the same parts.

[jason812]

I'm running an H3 buffer with a Sprinco blue spring on my10.5" blackout pistol with the Law Tactical folder and VG6 muzzle brake. It has pistol length gas and will shoot supers all day long. Subs I'm not worried about but they will not cycle.

[NordicTexan]

So a bit of an update after some range time today.

I did speak with Law Tactical and they were very helpful. He suggested that I take the weights out of the carbine buffer. Its actually about 2+ OZ of weight, which is what the bolt extension required adds to the system. Sounded good, so gave that a try. Unfortunately, the 8.5" 5.56 with the PSA flash can, still stove pipes / fails to eject every other round. So, I had picked up the lighter spring from Sprinco so we gave that a try as well. No joy and the same problem. The 300 blackout with supersonic rounds, cycles just fine, either with the standard carbine buffer weight or with the buffer with all the weight removed. No issues at all in that one.

I am also seeing a certain amount of damage on the head of the buffer weight. It seems to be smashing into the buffer retention pin. I have no idea if this is related. I don't remember seeing it before adding the Law Tactical folder, and it is not present on the pistol lower without the folder.

I also checked the extraction pin. Its clean, oiled and moves freely on both the 5.56 and the 300. No real difference between them

Short term, we are going to try going the other way, maybe a heavier buffer weight to see if its actually over gassing. I dont think I really buy in to that, but its worth a try. Hopefully, if there is a little sunshine this weekend, we can give it a try.

I am also going to order and offset buffer retention pin. they arent expensive and it seems to be made for this problem. Evidently the buffer is impacting the existing pin to early instead of the bolt. I had no idea before this is was an issue, and that some one had made a part to try and fix it. I will post the results of the next round of experiments.

[SigM4]

Another thought would be to get rid of the buffer retention pin altogether. A captive buffer/spring system allows you to remove the pin and (if bought as a set) the ability to switch out springs to optimize the function.

[NordicTexan]

Okay, so another range update

Test 1 5.56 pistol switched out carbine buffer(1+ oz) with weights removed for spare h2 buffer (4.6 oz) ( the bolt extension adds 2.2 oz so essentially tests early in the week were 5.2 oz and 3.2 oz respectively)
Results: 5.56 - stove pipes every couple of rounds, ejection distance seems anemic only going a couple of feet when it does eject
222 - Stove pipes only a couple of times per magazine, ejection is generally more healthy

Test 2 Tried with lighter (spinco 20% reduced spring)
same results as above

Test 3 Removed buffer retention pin, used heavy buffer
about the same results as above.

Test 4 used light buffer (carbine buffer with weight removed
no real change in results

It seems that in general the 223 works better than the 5.56. We did try my BIL's 7.5" 5.56 upper, and his worked? He offered to buy the law folder at 1/2 price which I declined) Weight and spring change didn't have any effect.

The major difference between the 5.56 build and my 300 blackout build is the muzzle device. The black out has a standard compensator on it. The 5.56 has the PSA Flash can. Its a really open design, so I am wondering if a new compensator is in order? Unfortunately, its one of those uppers with a 10" MLOK handguard, so it is just short of the end of the flash can. Very cool look, but an normal compensator probably means changing the hand rail to something shorter.

Also, the extractor seems to move and the spring works, how do you tell if it is in need or replacement? I did get an " strong" extractor spring in the Sprinco kit so I could give that a try, but is there any thing to look for before I dive into that?

I am still pretty much a novice at this, so any advice is welcome. I will have the law tactical guys a call again on Monday. Have to say the technical folks there have been great to talk to.

[03Lightningrocks]

It seems that in general the 223 works better than the 5.56. We did try my BIL's 7.5" 5.56 upper, and his worked? He offered to buy the law folder at 1/2 price which I declined)

I can't offer any advice but I thought this was kind of funny. He was trying to help you out.

[Teamless]

It seems that in general the 223 works better than the 5.56. We did try my BIL's 7.5" 5.56 upper, and his worked? He offered to buy the law folder at 1/2 price which I declined)

I can't offer any advice but I thought this was kind of funny. He was trying to help you out.

Well - it does work in my guns lol

[03Lightningrocks]

It seems that in general the 223 works better than the 5.56. We did try my BIL's 7.5" 5.56 upper, and his worked? He offered to buy the law folder at 1/2 price which I declined)

I can't offer any advice but I thought this was kind of funny. He was trying to help you out.

Well - it does work in my guns lol

Now it is even funnier. His BIL is on this forum! Hahaha.. just think of all the money you will save him from trying to buy the right component to make it work.

[NordicTexan]

Teamless is a great friend and cohort. We have a lot of fun with projects and push each other on the range. He is usually talking me into spending money, but I did this one on my own.

I did however sucker him in. I also put the magpul BAD levers on both AR's, knowing that teamless would like them and need six more for all his builds. At his point he has picked up three, so all good.

Update from yesterday. Law is sending me bolt extension extension. we will see if that does anything. Maybe at least eliminate the damage to the top of the buffer tube.