ATF Visiting End Users; Requesting Forfeiture Of Polymer80 Kits

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Paladin
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ATF Visiting End Users; Requesting Forfeiture Of Polymer80 Kits

#1

Post by Paladin »

GHOSTED: ATF Visiting End Users; Requesting Forfeiture Of Polymer80 Kits

They are apparently going after certain kits:
Polymer80 kit known as the Buy Build Shoot kit
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Re: ATF Visiting End Users; Requesting Forfeiture Of Polymer80 Kits

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Post by Grayling813 »

Thus it begins....where will the new Lexington and Concord be?
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Re: ATF Visiting End Users; Requesting Forfeiture Of Polymer80 Kits

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Post by chasfm11 »

Grayling813 wrote: Sat Dec 12, 2020 9:51 am Thus it begins....where will the new Lexington and Concord be?
We are well down the path to total control. The Federal government passed rules requiring banks to report transactions over $10,000. Now, they are prosecuting individuals for "structuring" - a term that they use for creating transactions meant to keep below that $10,000 limit. People were required to get an FFL involved if they wanted to sell a gun that they made from an 80% kit. Now the kits are confiscated.

There are rules to provide a framework for intrusion below the rule level. I don't think that there will be another Lexington and Concord because they will not come for us, in mass, the way that the British did. We are going to die by a 1,000 cuts.
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Re: ATF Visiting End Users; Requesting Forfeiture Of Polymer80 Kits

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Post by parabelum »

Time has come to take the gloves off, if this is what awaits us law abiding citizens, rebellion is the only solution. Courts have clearly demonstrated that our Constitution doesn’t matter and that 75 million of us can just drop dead.
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Re: ATF Visiting End Users; Requesting Forfeiture Of Polymer80 Kits

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Post by crazy2medic »

Since those kits were Legally Purchased, is the ATF going to buy them back? At Cost?
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Re: ATF Visiting End Users; Requesting Forfeiture Of Polymer80 Kits

#6

Post by Soccerdad1995 »

crazy2medic wrote: Sat Dec 12, 2020 1:24 pm Since those kits were Legally Purchased, is the ATF going to buy them back? At Cost?
Good question.

Probably the same answer as what they did for bump stocks that the ATF had expressly said were legal before buyers relied on that decision to buy them.

And the same answer for pistol braces that will suddenly be declared illegal after Biden is sworn in.

In other words, we'll get nothing and like it!
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Re: ATF Visiting End Users; Requesting Forfeiture Of Polymer80 Kits

#7

Post by BigGuy »

chasfm11 wrote: Sat Dec 12, 2020 10:58 am
Grayling813 wrote: Sat Dec 12, 2020 9:51 am Thus it begins....where will the new Lexington and Concord be?
We are well down the path to total control. The Federal government passed rules requiring banks to report transactions over $10,000. Now, they are prosecuting individuals for "structuring" - a term that they use for creating transactions meant to keep below that $10,000 limit. People were required to get an FFL involved if they wanted to sell a gun that they made from an 80% kit. Now the kits are confiscated.

There are rules to provide a framework for intrusion below the rule level. I don't think that there will be another Lexington and Concord because they will not come for us, in mass, the way that the British did. We are going to die by a 1,000 cuts.
:iagree: This. It's like the boiling frog.
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Re: ATF Visiting End Users; Requesting Forfeiture Of Polymer80 Kits

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MarineGunBuilder reacts:

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Re: ATF Visiting End Users; Requesting Forfeiture Of Polymer80 Kits

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Post by 03Lightningrocks »

I just read a story off of facebook saying Biden has already said he would institute gun control laws through executive action. Surely any laws he tried to implement would have to pass through the supreme court.

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Re: ATF Visiting End Users; Requesting Forfeiture Of Polymer80 Kits

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Post by chasfm11 »

03Lightningrocks wrote: Sat Dec 12, 2020 5:56 pm I just read a story off of facebook saying Biden has already said he would institute gun control laws through executive action. Surely any laws he tried to implement would have to pass through the supreme court.
His executive actions would only reach SCOTUS if there were a court case filed and was lost then appealed through whatever layers for courts with each denying to overturn the executive actions. Given the lack of willingness of the Supreme Court to even hear some of the gun related cases, I wouldn't expect help with this within the Presidential term. He may be able to get away with just about anything that he tries.
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Re: ATF Visiting End Users; Requesting Forfeiture Of Polymer80 Kits

#11

Post by der Teufel »

According to the article described below, it seems the ATF is now looking at 80% kits in their entirety. That is, besides the frame, if a seller offers the slide, springs, trigger, etc. then there's more than 80% of a firearm being sold. If this is indeed the argument, there may be unexpected consequences.
If, as the Polymer80 raid seems to indicate, all of those parts now add up to 100% of a firearm, what is the percentage allocated to each component? Can manufacturers soon wave this apparent new definition in the ATF’s collective face and sell completed frames/receivers by themselves as non-firearms? After all, without a slide, barrel or recoil spring, surely that’s less than 80% complete.

Right?

The ATF may have just shot itself in the foot, so to speak. At the very least, they have given us that much more ammunition to demonstrate in court that their definitions are vague, inconsistent, arbitrary and capricious, far beyond the point of mere unconstitutionality.

https://concealednation.org/2020/12/pol ... -the-foot/
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Re: ATF Visiting End Users; Requesting Forfeiture Of Polymer80 Kits

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Post by Ruark »

Good grief, how do you measure gun components in "percent," anyway? The whole concept seems silly.
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Re: ATF Visiting End Users; Requesting Forfeiture Of Polymer80 Kits

#13

Post by Syntyr »

Ruark wrote: Sun Dec 13, 2020 1:37 pm Good grief, how do you measure gun components in "percent," anyway? The whole concept seems silly.
Home depot sells 90% shotguns...
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Re: ATF Visiting End Users; Requesting Forfeiture Of Polymer80 Kits

#14

Post by puma guy »

If you assume ATF agents and bureaucrats are logical, rational and reasonable you're making a big mistake. I haven't dealt with them since 1965-71 and the biggest pains were after the GCA of '68. They were gleeful when they found any minors issues and one in particular would probably have arrested me if he could. He was tracking down a rifle I sold that was used in a murder in Louisiana. It was his opinion we were at fault for legally selling the suspect a Marlin 30-30. I made the mistake of asking him if he blames car dealerships for selling cars that are used in crimes or vehicular homicide. Didn't go well after that, but he couldn't one thing wrong with any of our record keeping and he looked at everything. That seemed to infuriate him further.
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Re: ATF Visiting End Users; Requesting Forfeiture Of Polymer80 Kits

#15

Post by crazy2medic »

Pardon my logic
Ok if you buy an 80% lower and the parts to finish it that's a crime, but if you buy an 80% lower then buy the part to finish it separately that's legal? Or do you have to buy the lower after you have the parts already?
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