IN: CHL wrestling with 4 year old son ND shoots both in head, son dies

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Liberty
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Re: IN: CHL wrestling with 4 year old son ND shoots both in head, son dies

#16

Post by Liberty » Wed Jan 29, 2020 1:04 pm

Rob72 wrote:
Wed Jan 29, 2020 9:22 am
It wasn't the fault of the tool, but of the tool carrying. If one insists on doing stoopid things, pain will ensue.

There are no "safe" firearms, only safe users, and about 800 years of human history demonstrates this.
I totally agree with this, and I know and understand that. This guy has no one to blame but himself he was stupid. The truth is the type of gun was a factor and this specific accident wouldn't have happened with a traditional DA/SA or 1911 with a manual safety engaged. It also doesn't mean that he still would be safe carrying a P92F without a holster (assumed this was how he had it) SOB, and wrestling with his Kid. The safety between his ears was disengaged.

I am a believer in thumb safeties, that doesn't mean that strikers can't be carried safely. But I do believe that it is important that we all recognize that certain types of accidents simply would not happen with weapons that have manually operated safeties. In safety speak, recognizing a hazard is the first step in making something safe.
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K.Mooneyham
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Re: IN: CHL wrestling with 4 year old son ND shoots both in head, son dies

#17

Post by K.Mooneyham » Thu Feb 13, 2020 9:29 am

Liberty wrote:
Wed Jan 29, 2020 1:04 pm
Rob72 wrote:
Wed Jan 29, 2020 9:22 am
It wasn't the fault of the tool, but of the tool carrying. If one insists on doing stoopid things, pain will ensue.

There are no "safe" firearms, only safe users, and about 800 years of human history demonstrates this.
I totally agree with this, and I know and understand that. This guy has no one to blame but himself he was stupid. The truth is the type of gun was a factor and this specific accident wouldn't have happened with a traditional DA/SA or 1911 with a manual safety engaged. It also doesn't mean that he still would be safe carrying a P92F without a holster (assumed this was how he had it) SOB, and wrestling with his Kid. The safety between his ears was disengaged.

I am a believer in thumb safeties, that doesn't mean that strikers can't be carried safely. But I do believe that it is important that we all recognize that certain types of accidents simply would not happen with weapons that have manually operated safeties. In safety speak, recognizing a hazard is the first step in making something safe.
I think I understand where you are going with this. Carrying a non-thumb/grip safety striker-fired pistol requires a greater level of training (administrative control) to prevent certain negligent discharges than carrying a similar pistol with a thumb or grip safety (engineered control). The trade-off is the speed at which the pistol can be employed. Some lean to one side of the thing, and some to the other, and generally, never the two shall meet. Both arguments have their merits.

My only complaint in my earlier reply to this subject was the dad blaming the incident on a non-drop-safe handgun when that is highly unlikely to be the case. The whole thing of "I dropped it and it just went off" doesn't cut it any longer. All that sort of prevarication does is give the antis even more fodder to complain about firearms.

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