CHL holder killed by police in Las Vegas at a Costco

[Charles L. Cotton]

Each of the eye witnesses said he didn't have a gun in his hand and wasn't doing anything that indicated he was going for a gun. The "ear witnesses" heard different things, so there's no reliability there. I hope there is a video of this event. At this point, I don't buy the LEO's stories.

Chas.

[drjoker]

Don't shop at Costco.

[NOS]

Umm... Isn't Nevada an Open Carry State?? I know he had a CCW permit, but it seems strange that even if he had a wardrobe malfunction and the gun was revealed would it really be "illegal" for him to be carrying. If there wasn't a sign legally posted that indicated he could not carry on the premises, I don't understand how this could have escalated to this point.
However, I wasn't there and don't know the exact events that occurred leading up to the shooting. I'll just hang out and wait until the hard facts are released. It's just sad that someone had to die in that situation.

[lowonair]

Umm... Isn't Nevada an Open Carry State?? I know he had a CCW permit, but it seems strange that even if he had a wardrobe malfunction and the gun was revealed would it really be "illegal" for him to be carrying. If there wasn't a sign legally posted that indicated he could not carry on the premises, I don't understand how this could have escalated to this point.
However, I wasn't there and don't know the exact events that occurred leading up to the shooting. I'll just hang out and wait until the hard facts are released. It's just sad that someone had to die in that situation.

makes me scared to even print.

[seamusTX]

Umm... Isn't Nevada an Open Carry State??

Yes it is, and that worked out perfectly, didn't it?

- Jim

[Excaliber]

Each of the eye witnesses said he didn't have a gun in his hand and wasn't doing anything that indicated he was going for a gun. The "ear witnesses" heard different things, so there's no reliability there. I hope there is a video of this event. At this point, I don't buy the LEO's stories.

Chas.

If the "ear witnesses" are each even partially correct, the dead man received more contradictory orders than he could possibly comply with in the time he had. Responding to any one of them would have appeared to be noncompliance to the others. This was a no win situation for the deceased. On the other hand, initial noncompliance with verbal commands to do anything except terminate an immediate deadly threat is not justification for use of deadly force.

The decision to confront him at the exit to the store with drawn guns and multiple uninvolved people nearby wouldn't have won any awards for good tactical decision making in my agency.

In a situation like this, a single officer indicating he wants to speak with the subject from the front with a request to accompany him to a safe area for interview and a safety backup officer on a 45 degree angle a couple of steps behind the subject would have been a far better approach. The involved officers have probably realized this by now.

From the intial information, this looks likely to be another case that ends up being a tragedy for everyone involved, including the folks in the store who initiated the call.

[Manfred]

To quote the great K,

"People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it"

Not assigning blame in any direction. True it is a "right" to carry, but you have to think 5 steps ahead of everyone, that includes police.

The sillyist comment I have ever heard from someone is "That persons right to not be alarmed doesnt over ride my right to carry". This was a comment from an open carrier. As we have just learned, "spooking" an idiot can be just as dangerous if not more so than being confronted with an actual threat.

-Manny

[Oldgringo]

Umm... Isn't Nevada an Open Carry State?? I know he had a CCW permit, but it seems strange that even if he had a wardrobe malfunction and the gun was revealed would it really be "illegal" for him to be carrying. If there wasn't a sign legally posted that indicated he could not carry on the premises, I don't understand how this could have escalated to this point.
However, I wasn't there and don't know the exact events that occurred leading up to the shooting. I'll just hang out and wait until the hard facts are released. It's just sad that someone had to die in that situation.

Las Vegas is in the state of Nevada; however, that's where the similarity ends. Las Vegas is long gone from my "bucket list" and Reno/Sparks is right behind it.

[Keith B]

Still all hearsay, but now the police are saying they have over a dozen witnesses saying the guy pulled his gun http://www.8newsnow.com/Global/story.asp?S=12796152" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

NOTE TO ADD: The witness reports that the news are quoting saying they saw the whole thing were from comments left on their website, so the credibility is not there on those statements.

[dicion]

Just a thought... but if, it was in his waistband/holster/retention device, and he was told to 'put it on the ground' as some ear witnesses have said...
...wouldn't that mean that the officers would have been telling him to remove it and place it on the ground?

If you tell me to put something in my pocket on the ground, well, I have to reach down, and remove it from my pocket first to comply, wouldn't I?

Someone standing there with guns drawn on them may not be in complete control of all their faculties, and was literally, just trying to do what the officers told him to....
I know that I'd be pretty, shaken, if I were in that situation, and would be trying to comply with every command yelled at me by the officers.

Just a thought.

[Justin Franklin]

What a tragedy! Hopefully the unbiased facts will come out and all will learn from this very unfortunate end of life.

[Quahog]

Still all hearsay, but now the police are saying they have over a dozen witnesses saying the guy pulled his gun http://www.8newsnow.com/Global/story.asp?S=12796152" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

NOTE TO ADD: The witness reports that the news are quoting saying they saw the whole thing were from comments left on their website, so the credibility is not there on those statements.

Saw this quote in a related story:

"The individual was shot -- its out in the open area right near the tire store. He was transported to UMC where he was pronounced dead at that point," said Metro Capt. Patrick Neville. "He had a weapon on him. I know the question is going to come up. The weapon is laying right out in front of the store. We also found another weapon when we transported him to the hospital."

http://www.lasvegasvalley.com/Global/st ... S=12785291

Forgot to add this part of the story:

Police say when they approached the suspect, he drew a weapon and pointed it at officers. After refusing to drop the weapon, three officers fired multiple rounds, striking the suspect numerous times.

[Fangs]

This is horrible all around. In my CHL class the instructor covered a similar scenario (after a defensive shooting), where 3 officers give 3 very conflicting verbal commands simultaneously. Something like "freeze", "drop it", and "get on the ground". We were taught to just freeze until the officers figured out and agreed upon what they wanted you to do. That makes sense to me, since not moving is further away from making an aggressive movement than moving at all is.

I personally assume that "going berzerk" = victim telling employee they can't legally deny him from carrying in their store.

Would love to see the video of his berzerking. Would also love to see it come down on whoever called it in's head if s/he exaggerated it.

[VMI77]

This incident has turned into a liars' contest. I wonder if they will ever get the truth out.

FWIW, the dead man had no criminal or mental illness record and was gainfully employed.

- Jim

And who has the biggest motive for lying? Witnesses who don't know the guy or the cops who shot him?

[Pinkycatcher]

Police say when they approached the suspect, he drew a weapon and pointed it at officers. After refusing to drop the weapon, three officers fired multiple rounds, striking the suspect numerous times.

This is what has me, of course the police are going to say that, that's the only way to justify their shooting, so they along with witnesses in the family shouldn't be held as reliable witnesses. Of course witness testimony in itself is always kind of sketchy, and video evidence would be the best, I hope they find it and if these cops shot an unarmed man then they need to be held accountable (unlikely), but if they were justified then I have no remorse for the CHL holder here.

But I just hope they find conclusive video evidence either way.