Dillon 750

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ET-Ret
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Dillon 750

#1

Post by ET-Ret »

Does any on here have some hands on experience withe 750 in 9mm or 380 and maybe 38/sp? I have watched
several video's and one with Kay Miculek and I had to put that to advertising. I do know they have used Dillon products
in the past for the shear volume of rounds the shoot I have been using RCBS single stage for 60 plus years Starting with 44 mag because
of cost. I use a JR. and let a Rock Chucker set in storage. Any help would be apperciated.
Et-ret

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Re: Dillon 750

#2

Post by K-Texas »

ET-Ret wrote: Sat Jun 20, 2020 9:24 pm Does any on here have some hands on experience withe 750 in 9mm or 380 and maybe 38/sp? I have watched
several video's and one with Kay Miculek and I had to put that to advertising. I do know they have used Dillon products
in the past for the shear volume of rounds the shoot I have been using RCBS single stage for 60 plus years Starting with 44 mag because
of cost. I use a JR. and let a Rock Chucker set in storage. Any help would be apperciated.
Et-ret
Over the past 10 years we have seen the most manufacturing variations since I started handloading more than 34 years ago. Ultimately, this is going to be a time/productivity issue. I think there are a few 750 owners, and certainly some 650 owners. I've never been an advocate of recommending progressive presses to new handloaders. It's one of the reason that there are so many questions concerning fundamental handloading.

So your past that with good experience using a single stage is a big +e. But, it's the same question but scaled down to production vs precision? Not because of the tools, but because of manufacturing variations for components. Particularly cartridge cases. I won't be the guy to tell you to crank the lever as fast as you can because everything else is overkill.

My recommendation would be an Auto-Indexing Turret Press. Only one problem, there's only 1 and it's made by LEE. I don't believe in fairy tells like plastic or pot metal parts being as good as steel. To be honest, I run my LEE Classic Turret press with as few LEE moving/wear parts as possible. It is a great press otherwise and with the REDDING handgun dies that I use, with good bullets I can keep OACL tolerances to around +/- .002" rather than +/- .010" or more that's typical of progressive presses.

With a progressive press you set your dies for operation with 4 or 5 operations occurring with each stroke of the lever, but let's also be honest and consider the time it takes to load primer tubes. One thing LEE does have right! In under a minute, and being overly conservative, you can have the LEE Safety Prime ready to go with another 100 primers. Unfortunately, production time for progressives never include the time to fill primer tubes. Then, we get into another weak area for LEE tools, powder charging. Maybe more of a personal issue because my handgun powders are spherical, some of them very dense and fine grained. When someone finds a LEE powder measure that doesn't leak these types of powders, let me know. There are, however, 2 products that can eliminate that issue. Auto Powder Drop units from RCBS and Hornady. And it's gonna add some extra weight to the turret, just like those plastic parts love! No matter, because for the past couple of years I know that with my own method and manually indexing the turret, my production rate is higher than it would be in auto-index mode. And I realize that's a bit out of odds regarding what I recommended earlier with an Auto-Indexing Turret Press. It is what it is and there is only 1 unless you want to go to their "value" model which I am NOT recommending.

200 handgun rounds an hour, all said and done including primer tool loading. Maybe faster depending on one's coordination and dexterity. But as far as holding tighter tolerances for your handloads? That will be a component issue vs a Tool issue for the most part. If your only going to load with Starline cases and control their uniformity in length, and make lengthy runs in production with 1 particular bullet? Others can recommend progressives because I won't. I like the better automation while only 1 case is going into 1 die at a time. In time you'll know errors by feel.

Precision was my first and foremost reason for getting into handloading. It's kinda like deciding where you'll eat. Most handloaders seem to prefer fast food vs waiting the required time for better food. And with the vast increase in available information on handloading, the proportionality of questions from those who did not learn the fundamentals, like you did with a single-stage press, is somehwat troublesome to me, personally.

Reloading manuals are for reading. Reloading errors come from not reading the manuals you have! Joe Blow, who might have an internet solution for a problem to your liking, might have also just arrived here from the planet Zeist!;-)
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Re: Dillon 750

#3

Post by Charles L. Cotton »

I don't have any experience with the Dillon 750, but I have many years experience with Dillon presses. I currently have two XL650s, one set up for small primers and one for large primers. I have previously had a Square Deal B (for .45 ACP only) and I've owned and used a 550. Many years ago I used a Star progressive on loan from a friend. Prior to going to progressive presses, I've used RCBS, Herters and Lyman presses. The RCBS was a single-stage press, while the Herters and Lyman were turret presses.

I've been reloading for over 45 years, primarily handgun calibers, but also .223 and some .308. In the early days of using progressive presses (Square Deal B and 550), I was concerned about the "quantity v. quality" issue. I fired hundreds of rounds in the same calibers/powder/bullets that were loaded on the Lyman/Herters/RCBS presses and on the progressives. There was no difference in accuracy. Sure, you can theoretically get greater accuracy if you load only the same heads-tamp cases, weigh your cases, etc. like bench-rest shooters do, but I'm not about to do that. (You can also achieve greater consistency and lower standard deviations if you use powers that fill more of the case, but that can be done with any press.) I know that the difference in accuracy, if any, will be so marginal that it won't impact my shooting in IDPA or self-defense drills. If I was a silhouette shooter trying to hit rams at 200 yds. with a pistol, then perhaps it would be worth the additional time and effort.

My coasting-rate of pistol ammo production from my XL650s is 600-650 rounds per hour and that includes adding primers, checking powder charge/OAL/crimp, running all rounds through a Shockbottle 100 rd. case gauge, then dumping them into a 100 rd. plastic case. (The Shockbottle fits a 100 rd plastic ammo box perfectly.) I can go faster, but then reloading becomes work instead of relaxing. (I have a case feeder, but not a bullet feeder.) Admittedly, I have two Dillon RL 100 Primer Filler machines, one each for large and small primers. (They were MUCH cheaper when I bought one and my son gave me the second one as a Christmas present.) That does same time, but not as much as some would think. I use primarily Winchester primers that come in trays with each primer in a separate hole. The size of the tray fits an RCBS Primer Flip Tray, so all you have to do is turn them over and start loading a primer tube. That MAY take 30 seconds. When I use CCI primers, I use the Flip Tray to turn the primers over and that may add an additional 10 seconds. With the Dillon Primer Filler machines, I just dump 100 primers into the machine, then go back to reloading. When I load 100 rds, a full primer tube is waiting. It takes only about one minute for the primer machine to fill a 100 primer tube.

As for the XL750, I have to admit my bias, even though I've never used one. The primer system is the same as the one on the 550 that was known for having problems. That's one reason I went to the XL650. Perhaps the primer system on the XL750 is better than the 550, but it's the same basic system. The excuse Dillon gave for abandoning the rotary primer system on the XL650 is to ease changing primer sizes. That's bogus; it takes about three minutes to make the change. If I needed a third press, I'd try to find an used XL650, but that won't be easy. Nobody gets rid of XL650s!

I've had a lot of people ask me over the years whether they should start with a single-stage press, then move to a progressive. I'm in the minority, but I always advise against that approach. Granted, I learned and honed reloading skills on single-stage and turret presses, but you can do the same thing with a progressive. Simply put one die in and use it like a single-stage press until you are comfortable with the process and are ready to up the production rate.

Dillon equipment is excellent and their customer support is the best in the industry. If you decide to get the XL750, you will be happy, even if you have to deal with the primer feed system on occasion. (Hopefully, I'm wrong about it.) When deciding between progressive v. single stage or turret presses, it all boils down to how much you shoot and how much time do you have to devote to reloading. My personal time is in very short supply, so I have to be as efficient as possible, if I want to keep shooting in volume.

Chas.

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Re: Dillon 750

#4

Post by K-Texas »

10 years ago, even 5 years ago, I would not even offer an opinion on someone's choice of press. One of the problems that has existed, beginning in 2008, is that there have been a record number of first-time gun owners and lots of discount ammo has come to the market in addition to those we already had like White-Box, S&B and Fiocchi. I'm sure that our range is not the only one that has been effected, and it is against our club rules to leave your cases behind you for others to pick up. I don't know many handloaders who don't reload range brass. At our range, setting out to pick up only the brass that you fired personally would be near impossible.

First I started seeing .45 ACP cases with thin case necks. That got to the point that we saw the introduction of U-dies, and they work fine. But do you want to use a U-die for all of your cases? I don't and sort accordingly by brands that are thick, thin or in the normal range I've become accustomed to over the years.

I know a lot of handloaders don't want to hear or read the S-Word: Sorting. But since precision is important to me, I do look at all of the brands of cases I end up with. To me, Winchester 9mm and older Rem 9mm cases were the standard bearers. Now you will run across 3 different types of Remington 9mm cases. Winchester still seems pretty consistent at around .011" thickness measured within 1mm of the case-mouth as far as my own measurement method. What I see with my cases that are all measured exactly the same way, the different brands are running from .009" - .014". That's a spread of .005" that get's doubled in the diameter measurement. So yeah, I sort cases by brand/headstamp where I've loaded so many that I have a list ingrained in my head concerning thickness by brand.

Now if I were going to commercially manufacture, it would be with Starline cases or Winchester if they could be bought in great enough quantity, but more likely Starline because with enough qty purchased they will custom headstamp your cases.

Then there's the issue of OACL variations. You simply can not expect a press operating at several hundred rounds per hour to hold tolerances as tight. I once asked a Dillon CS rep about that and the reply was rather disappointing. I've also seen a good many "experienced" handloaders dishing out advice that OACL variations have very little effect on things, and mention a medium burn-rate powder like Unique. So if the need is to make lots of ammo for competition or whatever, Qty vs Quality may be the over-riding consideration. And there are folks that don't see an advantage to loading large volumes of 9 x 19mm vs buying the discount stuff.

Not what I got into handloading to do. While acutely aware of the savings 34 years ago, I decided that I could make better ammo than I could buy. That includes Match Pistol or Match rifle.

As far as the notion that some things are just too trivial to be concerned with, unless you're making light 9mm plinking loads at minor Power Factor, depending on the powder used, you might get away with less stringent tolerances. I have done fairly extensive testing at near the Max Average Pressure, MAP, of 35,000 PSI for standard pressure 9mm, as well as +P where variations in OACL will certainly be a factor. To the point that I know that I can adjust my loads for velocity with a couple of adjustments whether it be +/- 1/10th grain of powder, or adjusting OACL by .010"/.25mm and can typically predict the average velocity difference I chrono within 10 FPS, and sometimes as low as 5.

You must understand that if the OACL of your handloads are shorter than those given in the data, you MUST decrease the powder charge to prevent pressure rising, and possibly to a dangerous level. Also bear in mind the very serious potential effects of bullet set-back during the feed cycle. Yes, case-neck tension is the biggest part of that, but when someone tells you that you shouldn't taper crimp autoloading cartridges, I tend to believe that they've never found a way to successfully taper crimp. It's just not that difficult and most definitely remember that all taper crimp dies are not created equal. And I have an unequivocal preference for Redding's auto-cartridge taper crimp dies.

So it really will come down to Qty vs Quality and now we see widespread variations in all case types. Revolver brass is certainly not immune, and really there have been differences in case-length among brands for many years. You've no doubt found, if you've checked, that new cases can often be even shorter than the Trim-To-Length for that cartridge. I don't make any Magnum Handgun loads for Hunting or personal defense without trimming cases to one uniform length The more time that you're willing to spend in Quality Control will have a definite effect on the quality of your handloads and that leaves crimping for last, and I do except in the case of using some over-sized hard-cast or poly-coated bullets for pistol. Most of those intended for revolvers, excepting Wadcutter bullets are going to have a crimp groove, and it will be smaller in area than that of a jacketed or plated bullet's crimp ring. Obviously, case length will matter.

The point of all of this is about your ammo expectations. Hey, I'd like to have a machine that makes perfect handloads in vast qty in the shortest possible time. Unfortunately, no such press exists. Take a box of commercial Premium Handgun Defense loads, even in 20 round containers and compare their OACLs and you'll certainly find they are not used by the ammo companies either.

Maybe I'm something of an extreme case vs cranking out bulk plinking ammo. And, likely, I have more time to devote to handloading than others might. Because of manufacturing variations, particularly brass cases, that has definitely extended my handloading time. And as far as 9mm, which most of us handload. OACL variations that are to be expected with faster production, powder drop variations combined with range brass case-wall thickness variation, it all adds up to too much variation. Now if I wanted to mass produce loads equivalent to the $10 per 50 round box stuff or less, I can't argue against that, nor with the guy whose time might be more limited where there's no advantage in handloading.

I can certainly say this in the smallest of minorities, I wish more press makers would get interested in making more efficient turret presses with 4 or 5 holes in the turret. Many turret presses today do not offer a lot of advantage over single-stage other than being able to leave your dies, even 2 sets, in the turret. I've looked at the Dillon model, but it's really intended for upgrading where I'd prefer not to have a shellplate. It seems that LEE is the only company interested in making the type of press I want with the Classic Turret. But as I've worn out the inferior parts I've chosen not to replace them since they are tied into automation. I can manually index mine now, faster than theirs with Auto-Index and all of the bells and whistles.

Maybe an odd choice, but for anyone considering it, I will only recommend the press itself along with the Safety Prime system. Nothing else as far as LEE products for this press. If you need faster production, then some type of progressive may be in your future. Just don't think that higher production comes without a cost. ;-)
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Re: Dillon 750

#5

Post by flechero »

While my Dillon experience is with a 550, the feedback so far on the 750 is very good!

Also, don't assume that it's just quality vs. quantity- the USAMU loads it's match ammo on Dillon progressives. :fire

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Re: Dillon 750

#6

Post by K-Texas »

flechero wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 5:51 pm While my Dillon experience is with a 550, the feedback so far on the 750 is very good!

Also, don't assume that it's just quality vs. quantity- the USAMU loads it's match ammo on Dillon progressives. :fire


Yeah, they also say that David Tubb makes rifle rounds on them as well. They don't specify that he was doing that when he was setting accuracy records. As far as the USAMU, how many times are they reloading their cases, more than once? How many dedicated operators are dong that and what is their production rate?

There is this thing known as promotional consideration, and/or paid endorsements, after all. Go to a competition pistol oriented forum and it ain't hard to find out why they're mostly used, or not, when they go the inexpensive bulk ammo route.. ;-)
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Re: Dillon 750

#7

Post by Charles L. Cotton »

Over 45+ years, I've loaded hundreds of thousands of rounds of pistol ammo using some new brass, but far more range pick-up brass. I've never had a catastrophic case failure, not once. I've had cases split after having been loaded several times, but no catastrophic failures, damaged guns or injured people. I don't load light loads either. Most duplicate factory velocities for a given caliber. I carry factory ammo in my self-defense handguns (except for .38 Super), but I load 9mm 124 Gr. Gold Dot ammo that matches +P velocities for practice. I do this so I can practice with the same ammo I carry, but at a much more economical price. I even load for 9X23 that works at 52,000 - 55,000 CUP, dwarfing the hottest 9mm ammo. I don't gamble with safety, but I don't obsess over the minutia either.

If reloading is your hobby, then spend as much time on it as you wish. After all, shooting is just a way to create more cases for you to load. But if shooting is your hobby and reloading is a way to support that hobby, then don't buy into the claim that progressive presses won't yield quality ammo. That simply not true.

Chas.

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Re: Dillon 750

#8

Post by K-Texas »

Charles L. Cotton wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 7:06 pm Over 45+ years, I've loaded hundreds of thousands of rounds of pistol ammo using some new brass, but far more range pick-up brass. I've never had a catastrophic case failure, not once. I've had cases split after having been loaded several times, but no catastrophic failures, damaged guns or injured people. I don't load light loads either. Most duplicate factory velocities for a given caliber. I carry factory ammo in my self-defense handguns (except for .38 Super), but I load 9mm 124 Gr. Gold Dot ammo that matches +P velocities for practice. I do this so I can practice with the same ammo I carry, but at a much more economical price. I even load for 9X23 that works at 52,000 - 55,000 CUP, dwarfing the hottest 9mm ammo. I don't gamble with safety, but I don't obsess over the minutia either.

If reloading is your hobby, then spend as much time on it as you wish. After all, shooting is just a way to create more cases for you to load. But if shooting is your hobby and reloading is a way to support that hobby, then don't buy into the claim that progressive presses won't yield quality ammo. That simply not true.

Chas.
Never had a catastrophic failure either, nor even the hint of one. Nonetheless, they have occurred. Several incidents occurred after 147 gr. bullets were available in 9mm and after 9 x 19mm was allowed in IPSC Major for the first time at the higher power factor then. There were not clear conclusions derived, only suspicions. One of which was that very fast burning powder was being used inappropriately, and greatly overcharged, if not in fact double-charged.

One of the great things about the little 9 x 19mm is it's great strength in relation to its pressure rating. I'm aware of tests being conducted to see what kind of pressure would be required to cause case-head separation with a 9 x 19mm and it was above 100,000 PSI.

And I certainly don't mean that quality ammo can't be made with a progressive, just that there are degrees of quality. As some folks with a background in manufacturing, or those with experience in Machining Technology know, there is this thing known as geometric tolerancing. Common sense in terms of placing two metal parts together and wanting them to move in different directions. Obviously, at 0 tolerance, that ain't gonna work so well, so an allowable amount of tolerance is warranted.

Take a guy who makes excellent handloads on a single-stage at the rate of 100 rounds per hour. He may even have a press made like a REDDING that uses Top-Dead-Center that some here might be aware of, or not. Take another guy with similar expertise loading 700 rounds on a progressive, and unfortunately Dillon's idea of Top-Dead-Center is a couple of nobs on either side of the cast portion of the press vs steel on steel engagement. But there are things like competition seating dies that can help there. Will they be making the same quality of ammo?

And by now we should all know that if you get 700 cases of range brass nice and shiny, ready to reload with no other steps taken you're going to get a different level of quality altogether vs doing some case prep. So, it can certainly be argued that if you're gonna have to spend extra time in prep, you can cut down on the overall time by using a faster production machine. That might warrant the cost for some. I won't say that I'll never own a progressive. It's doubtful, unless a machine is made that fits my needs, and that ain't how many rounds I can make in the shortest amount of time. ;-)
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Re: Dillon 750

#9

Post by flechero »

K-Texas wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 6:25 pm As far as the USAMU, how many times are they reloading their cases, more than once? How many dedicated operators are dong that and what is their production rate?
I don't think that matters - earlier comments were about sorting and comparing SS to progressive... so whether you both use new Starline or both use range p/u's the comparison needs to be apples to apples. You can sort and load progressive (many do). So even if they are using new brass (which I've read they do for 50 yd line BE) the fact that they load progressive shows that the difference (if there actually is one) is slimmer than the margin of detection with the shooter.... And considering they ransom rest test different lot #'s of powder- I'd bet they have loaded against a SS to check for any difference.

Now, I don't usually sort and I don't claim to make 50 yd line ammo at 400-500/hr... but I do know for a fact that at that rate I'm still turning out better ammo than I used to buy. And doing so for under 1/2 the price of the crappiest fmj at the store.

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Re: Dillon 750

#10

Post by K-Texas »

flechero wrote: Tue Jun 23, 2020 8:29 am
K-Texas wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 6:25 pm As far as the USAMU, how many times are they reloading their cases, more than once? How many dedicated operators are dong that and what is their production rate?
I don't think that matters - earlier comments were about sorting and comparing SS to progressive... so whether you both use new Starline or both use range p/u's the comparison needs to be apples to apples. You can sort and load progressive (many do). So even if they are using new brass (which I've read they do for 50 yd line BE) the fact that they load progressive shows that the difference (if there actually is one) is slimmer than the margin of detection with the shooter.... And considering they ransom rest test different lot #'s of powder- I'd bet they have loaded against a SS to check for any difference.

Now, I don't usually sort and I don't claim to make 50 yd line ammo at 400-500/hr... but I do know for a fact that at that rate I'm still turning out better ammo than I used to buy. And doing so for under 1/2 the price of the crappiest fmj at the store.

The point being that while a civilian handloader might want to sort cases for RELOADS, especially range brass, that is not the same case for the USAMU HANDLOADERS using virgin brass of a single brand furnished to them. Unless the civilian only loads with virgin brass, what the USAMU does is hardly apples to apples. They're essentially making new premium ammo. Handloads vs Reloads. For me, the sorting has become necessary because of the variations in brass due to all of the discount factory ammo where many shooters never pick up their brass.

But in these kinds of conversations I believe that it's always good to get opinions both pro and con. I've been representing the Con in anticipation of several handloaders being Pro. So now you guys can sell the OP on a Dillon 750. I won't because I won't be buying one. The OP is looking for a way to make handgun loads faster than can be done on a single-stage, and my own method is certainly out of the norm due to my own modification of an Auto-Indexing Turret Press that I've essentially stripped down and started over with. The basic press is actually a very good one once the inferior parts are discarded.

Also in regard to the OP, I can't remember what Kay Miculek's status is as a sponsored shooter. But Jerry, on the other hand is sponsored by Hornady and uses the ammo they furnish him. ;-)
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I'll Agree to disagree

#11

Post by flechero »

K-Texas wrote: Tue Jun 23, 2020 6:25 pm They're essentially making new premium ammo. Handloads vs Reloads. For me, the sorting has become necessary because of the variations in brass due to all of the discount factory ammo where many shooters never pick up their brass.
Well any of us with new brass are making "new" ammo- but the discussion was that progressives were inferior to turrets and single stage presses and I don't buy it. Do you readjust the dies for each piece of brass in your turret or do you sort to exact length and wall thickness brass? If you don't then you could have just as much variation as anyone else.

No doubt singles and turrets can make fine ammo... but they can also make junk ammo. The guy setting up the press & dies and sorting the brass is the bigger reason, pro or con, single stage or progressive press. It's the indian, not the arrow.
:tiphat:

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Re: Dillon 750

#12

Post by ET-Ret »

In regards to what the Miculek clan is doing . They are a business and may use some ammo provided they are running a range and shoot
more ammo than single Co is going to provide. I am a person who watches what is going on in the background. You can look at the videos they have let out over several years and see a lot of different products. one that comes to mind was Lena making practice ammo on a old Dillion 1000. a
discontinued machine . She was smiling and running like a champ. A very recent video shows momma (Kay ) with whole bench of new Dillon's and telling the world they are the best thing money can buy. Smells like a deal to me. that is what business do. Did they buy them or the a deal from Dillon
I could care less. I have had a Square deal in 38 sp when it was new it worked for me and 13 years later out of the box I had trouble with it not seating primers so I sold it to a friend who sent it to Dillon and changed it to 9mm and he happy with it but wants something faster as He shoots matches. I think my problem is old age and not having the strength to run the machine. For this that RCBS Jr works fine. Its like a new car I just might buy one
and give it to my Grandson. I was thinking a 650 but the world turned and now it a 750 or 10xxxxx. i do value the comments and will let everone know what I do at a later time.
ET-ret

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Re: I'll Agree to disagree

#13

Post by K-Texas »

flechero wrote: Tue Jun 23, 2020 9:00 pm
K-Texas wrote: Tue Jun 23, 2020 6:25 pm They're essentially making new premium ammo. Handloads vs Reloads. For me, the sorting has become necessary because of the variations in brass due to all of the discount factory ammo where many shooters never pick up their brass.
Well any of us with new brass are making "new" ammo- but the discussion was that progressives were inferior to turrets and single stage presses and I don't buy it. Do you readjust the dies for each piece of brass in your turret or do you sort to exact length and wall thickness brass? If you don't then you could have just as much variation as anyone else.

No doubt singles and turrets can make fine ammo... but they can also make junk ammo. The guy setting up the press & dies and sorting the brass is the bigger reason, pro or con, single stage or progressive press. It's the indian, not the arrow.
:tiphat:
Bingo! The difference between a handload and a reload.

I believe that I already stated that I segregate 9mm cases by headstamp according to case-wall thickness. The easiest die to set up is the resizing die and I use 2 different sizing dies for "normal" and thicker cases. Same with .45 ACP.

You introduced the USAMU team into the conversation and I believe that we can dismiss the idea that their reloading range brass like most of us civilians do. I don't know exactly what their procedure is, I can only imagine how I would do things as the ranking member. I would set aside a good percentage of the new cases as they came in and reserve them for match use. After firing those they would be used for reloads. But I doubt very much that they are mixing different brands of fired cases if, in fact, they use more than 1 brand. As a dedicated unit, they have time/personnel to do more things than just firing rounds such as the amount of inspection or sorting they do.

Buy want you want. I ain't selling anything and I believe the OP will buy what he wants. Nonetheless, there are certain realities involved. I mentioned that moving metal parts have to include a tolerance range that allows metal parts to move freely. Going from single-stage to turret to progressive presses, the number of moving parts increase accordingly. Then when you get to progressives you add shellplates into the equation. It's rather obvious that when you set up dies for a turret, they are set up individually for the turret or progressive press. With operation of these 2 types you work with 1 case rotating the turret/dies with a T press and 4 or 5 cases at a time, or more in some cases, with a progressive while a good number of them are being worked by their respective die simultaneously. I can say with certainty that when I run across an abnormal case I didn't catch during inspection/sorting, I will find it during loading, by feel, because I am working with 1 case at a time.

And certainly, there are several grades of single-stage presses, from inexpensive to more expensive precision machines. The ones I've spent the most time with also include a top-dead-center feature that very much help control OACL variations. That comes with every REDDING press I'm aware of. But with the introduction of their Classic presses, LEE took note and incorporated TDC as is the case for the Classic Turret press and also steel on steel, meaning you stop the rams upper travel at the same point and position with every stroke.

And to be quite honest, I don't get behind 400 - 750 rounds of auto-pistol rounds before I start cranking out handloads. I usually do 200 - 300 round runs using the inspected/sorted cases; sometimes less for revolver. And much of this is about variations with different brands of cases. I'd also say that those who sort cases are definitely in the minority according to what I read and I'm probably spending more time prepping handgun cases than I ever have because of it. How fast I can turn out 200 -300 rounds on the press after that just isn't a high priority for me. How an individual chooses to deal with these issues is totally their call. I won't be recommending any type of progressive to a new handloader but that is a common occurrence at the competition oriented sites and the number of problems I read are proportional to those who do begin with them. I also wonder these days about the number of new handloaders actually reading the handload manuals vs depending on the net to teach them. With the LEE Classic Turret press you have to option of running it in auto-index mode, or not. So, a new handloader, or someone who chooses to, for say, rifle hunting/target loads, it can be operated as a single-stage press that has T-D-C like my REDDING single-stage has.

That's my method and my view from the con side. Some feel that they need the higher production rate of a progressive while some may not. I will say one thing, if I ever do buy a progressive, it will auto-index. The difference in production rate between my Classic Turret (including feeding priming tools) set-up and a manually indexing progressive just isn't enough to excite me, personally. Mr. Cotton has mentioned several times where I've read that he doesn't hold the Dillon 750 in the same regard as the 650. I've read that same opinion in other places as well. I would suspect by now that there are not a lot of new 650s still out there. ;-)
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ET-Ret
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Re: Dillon 750

#14

Post by ET-Ret »

I wonder what kind of bullets work the best in a progresive. I have used all kinds and it has never been a problem.
that said in the 1960's I used Swaged Hp with speer half jackets. Hot stuff. 26.5 Grains of 2400 with a 220 gr HP in a model 29 6.5 in bbl. The jackets would sometimes
come off in flight. and the bullet makers went to 3/4 or better jackets. I still have a few Norma light steel jackets like Bob Peterson killed a couple of
large bears with but Norma went away because of the steel name. I was young and and silly in those days.
ET-ret

K-Texas
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Re: Dillon 750

#15

Post by K-Texas »

ET-Ret wrote: Wed Jun 24, 2020 4:27 pm I wonder what kind of bullets work the best in a progresive. I have used all kinds and it has never been a problem.
that said in the 1960's I used Swaged Hp with speer half jackets. Hot stuff. 26.5 Grains of 2400 with a 220 gr HP in a model 29 6.5 in bbl. The jackets would sometimes
come off in flight. and the bullet makers went to 3/4 or better jackets. I still have a few Norma light steel jackets like Bob Peterson killed a couple of
large bears with but Norma went away because of the steel name. I was young and and silly in those days.
ET-ret
I have a couple of thoughts and maybe the progressive users will agree. I would prefer a rounded ogive JSP if you have a seating stem suited for that. They're a bit more likely to be forgiving of seating a bullet that might be slightly off kilter vs a flat nose bullet or seating stem that seats on the nose. Pretty much the same issue with my set-up.

I'm also a firm believer that some expansion is better than no expansion on game or potentially dangerous animal defense. This you can test for yourself lining up a series of 1 gallon water jugs to shoot into to recover the bullet. JSPs do not expand like JHPs, so they will penetrate plenty deep, whereas a hard cast bullet may not expand at all. The SPEER JSPs that I've tested have performed very well and they have a more rounded ogive shape. They expand slightly into a 6 pointed start pattern that really doesn't affect penetration a great deal. Not sure about the available weights but pretty sure they have a 240 for .44 Mag. And I'd probably use at least 6 jugs aligned. ;-)
Anything that can be corrupted by man; will be corrupted.

The Lord is my shepherd; I shall not want . . .
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