"Off Limits" locations for CHL's

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Armed-Texan
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Re: "Off Limits" locations for CHL's

#31

Post by Armed-Texan » Mon May 12, 2008 7:40 am

question.


i get my haircut at a local cosmetology school. will i be a criminal if i carry my handgun in tomorrow?
is a beauty school off limits?


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Re: "Off Limits" locations for CHL's

#32

Post by chewy555 » Mon May 12, 2008 9:14 am

I would say that it is off limits since it is a school. I can not remember anything that says that a beauty school is ok to carry at.
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Re: "Off Limits" locations for CHL's

#33

Post by The Annoyed Man » Mon May 12, 2008 9:46 am

Yesterday, another CHL holder who works at the local Bass Pro said something to me about not being able to carry into banks. I chose not to argue the point at the time, but that didn't sound right to me, and I have carried into my own bank branch several times.

Am I missing something? Does CHL law forbid me from carrying into a bank that is not posted with a 30.06 sign, or is there a federal law involved?
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Re: "Off Limits" locations for CHL's

#34

Post by seamusTX » Mon May 12, 2008 9:56 am

Banks follow the same rules as other private property. They must be 30.06 posted.

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Re: "Off Limits" locations for CHL's

#35

Post by Keith B » Mon May 12, 2008 10:02 am

seamusTX wrote:Banks follow the same rules as other private property. They must be 30.06 posted.

- Jim
Jim is correct (as usual! ;-) .) Some states (Montana, North Carolina, Nebraska and Alaska) list banks or financial institutions as off limits in the statute. And of course, if the bank is properly posted per that states requirement, then it would be off limits.
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Re: "Off Limits" locations for CHL's

#36

Post by The Annoyed Man » Mon May 12, 2008 1:17 pm

Keith B wrote:
seamusTX wrote:Banks follow the same rules as other private property. They must be 30.06 posted.

- Jim
Jim is correct (as usual! ;-) .) Some states (Montana, North Carolina, Nebraska and Alaska) list banks or financial institutions as off limits in the statute. And of course, if the bank is properly posted per that states requirement, then it would be off limits.
Thanks guys. That's what I thought, but just I wanted to make sure that I wasn't missing something.
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Re: "Off Limits" locations for CHL's

#37

Post by Armed-Texan » Wed May 14, 2008 9:18 am

ok, i went to pay the water bill today, they had on a 11"x8" sheet of paper in black ink, 30.05 trespass by a chl holder, i don't remember the wording, but it was posted on the door. is this a legal sign? was i given notice? just to be on the safe side, i put it back in the truck and went in. from now on i will drive through. i had told myself that i won't spend my money anywhere my gun is not welcome, but i kinda need lights and water!

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Re: "Off Limits" locations for CHL's

#38

Post by Keith B » Wed May 14, 2008 9:23 am

Armed-Texan wrote:ok, i went to pay the water bill today, they had on a 11"x8" sheet of paper in black ink, 30.05 trespass by a chl holder, i don't remember the wording, but it was posted on the door. is this a legal sign? was i given notice? just to be on the safe side, i put it back in the truck and went in. from now on i will drive through. i had told myself that i won't spend my money anywhere my gun is not welcome, but i kinda need lights and water!
Not legal. has to be 30.06 per the requirements.
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Re: "Off Limits" locations for CHL's

#39

Post by seamusTX » Wed May 14, 2008 9:28 am

If the place you went to pay your water bill was a public facility (city hall or something similar), it cannot generally be posted even with a 30.06 sign.

The only legitimate 30.06 posting of a government facility is the place where a government meeting is being held. That implies that it can be posted only at the time the meeting is being held. However, some towns have taken advantage of that provision to post permanently.

A city or county building may also be off-limits because it contains a courtroom.

These bogus postings are common. The bottom line is that the police often say that they will enforce them, and it would be costly to beat the rap if you were arrested.

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Re: "Off Limits" locations for CHL's

#40

Post by Abraham » Thu Jun 12, 2008 12:00 pm

Seamus,

I just read your post.

If I understand you correctly, you're saying the bogus signs will be enforced as if they were properly lawful and you as the lawfully abiding CHL holder will be punished with arrest, detention and a jury trial if you don't observe them?

By "costly to beat the rap" when lawfully carrying, are you saying that the time and money required to exonerate you (though innocent of breaking any law) will be so harsh you may as well obey a bogus sign?

If the government, as represented by the police, in effect break the law with their enforcement of bogus signs, what does that say?

If this truly is the status of these situations, why bother getting a CHL?

If I'm correct in what I think you're observing, this creates a very discouraging atmosphere where one works at obeying all the laws necessary to carry, i.e. going through the required steps and money to obtain a CHL, but those in police power can willy nilly incarcerate you and make your life hell at their whim with made up law.

Please tell me I'm overlooking something?

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Re: "Off Limits" locations for CHL's

#41

Post by seamusTX » Thu Jun 12, 2008 12:16 pm

Abraham wrote:If I understand you correctly, you're saying the bogus signs will be enforced as if they were properly lawful and you as the lawfully abiding CHL holder will be punished with arrest, detention and a jury trial if you don't observe them?

By "costly to beat the rap" when lawfully carrying, are you saying that the time and money required to exonerate you (though innocent of breaking any law) will be so harsh you may as well obey a bogus sign?
That is what I am saying.

I can't prove it will happen in any particular case; but when the CHL law went into effect, the City of Galveston passed an ordinance prohibiting weapons on all city property except streets and sidewalks; and they posted signs on city buildings. Those signs are still there. The entire city council, administration, and police chief have turned over since then; but I am not betting that they won't enforce that ordinance if they catch someone carrying in City Hall.

If they enforce the city ordinance and get a conviction, it's a class C misdemeanor with up to a $500 fine. They could ask the DA's office to prosecute the case under 30.06. I don't know if the DA would do that or not.
Abraham wrote:If the government, as represented by the police, in effect break the law with their enforcement of bogus signs, what does that say?
The old saying goes, you can't fight City Hall.

The reality is that you can fight City Hall, but it takes a lot of time and energy and usually money. I could write letters to city and police officials and bring up the issue at a City Council meeting. I would probably be dismissed as a "gun nut."

I could hire a lawyer to file a motion to get an injuction, and the judge would probably issue one. That happened in Houston, and the city was forced to comply with state law.

I hang my head in shame at not having done at least the letter-writing, but when you rock the boat around here, you may find yourself in the water.

BTW, you may recall forum member Jhutto, who reported being arrested for carrying in a DPS office. He stopped posting, no doubt on the advice of an attorney.

- Jim


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Re: "Off Limits" locations for CHL's

#42

Post by lunchbox » Wed Aug 13, 2008 1:08 am

Charles L. Cotton wrote: Hospital or nursing home. TPC §46.035(b)(4).
Amusement park (as statutorily defined below). TPC §46.035(b)(5).
Church, synagogue or other established place of worship. TPC §46.035(b)(6).
Meetings of governmental entities. TPC §46.035(c).
i thought the law changed and these places had to post 30.06 just like everyone else????
at least thats what i thought i was told in Toms class
was i wrong????
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Re: "Off Limits" locations for CHL's

#43

Post by Mike1951 » Wed Aug 13, 2008 3:18 am

You didn't read all of it, rather just pulled something out of context.
Charles Cotton wrote:Off-limits to CHL's ONLY if a 30.06 sign is posted:
Note: The statutory requirement for a 30.06 sign or notice is not found in the individual Penal Code provisions cited after each location. The requirement is set forth in TPC §46.035(j).

Hospital or nursing home. TPC §46.035(b)(4).
Amusement park (as statutorily defined below). TPC §46.035(b)(5).
Church, synagogue or other established place of worship. TPC §46.035(b)(6).
Meetings of governmental entities. TPC §46.035(c).
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Re: "Off Limits" locations for CHL's

#44

Post by KC5AV » Wed Aug 13, 2008 8:46 am

lunchbox wrote:
Charles L. Cotton wrote: Hospital or nursing home. TPC §46.035(b)(4).
Amusement park (as statutorily defined below). TPC §46.035(b)(5).
Church, synagogue or other established place of worship. TPC §46.035(b)(6).
Meetings of governmental entities. TPC §46.035(c).
i thought the law changed and these places had to post 30.06 just like everyone else????
at least thats what i thought i was told in Toms class
was i wrong????
The law did change. Those places have to post 30.06 if they want to prohibit chl.
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Re: "Off Limits" locations for CHL's

#45

Post by Mike1951 » Wed Aug 13, 2008 8:54 am

But the point is that Mr. Cotton's statement was and is correct.

Lunchbox just didn't read all of it.
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