"Dangerous Weapons" in Federal Facilities & Re

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GlockenHammer
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"Dangerous Weapons" in Federal Facilities & Re

#1

Post by GlockenHammer »

Two problems:
(1) 18 USC 930 definition of prohibited weapons is too strict, and
(2) Federal Regulations (which are lesser known, but "count" as well) can drastically increase prohibitions on weapons.

(1) 18 USC 930 Prohibits the following from Federal buildings:
The term “dangerous weapon� means a weapon, device, instrument, material, or substance, animate or inanimate, that is used for, or is readily capable of, causing death or serious bodily injury, except that such term does not include a pocket knife with a blade of less than 21/2 inches in length. (GH: Note that firearms were specifically excluded as well.)
The problem with this is that almost anyone that carries a knife has one longer then 2-1/2 inches. This would include a Leatherman, Swiss Army knife, etc. Walk into a Post Office or other benign Federal Building and you're now a criminal.
Proposal: Update the definition to be commensurate with the definition of weapons as defined in the State in which the Federal building is situatated. This way, a state resident legally carrying such items would not suddenly become a Federal criminal because he walked into the wrong building. Exception: Additional restrictions can be imposed in any Federal building that installs metal detectors and is staffed with security personnel to enforce the more restrictive rules for that building. The stricter regulations would apply only insde the secured area.

(2) My second beef is with the Federal Regulations. Individual agencies can pass more restrictive regulations which have the force of the criminal code. One example is NASA which bans dangerous weapons on their real property (14 CFR 1204.1005 ) and points out that by violating this Federal Regulation, you can also be convicted under the criminal code via 18 USC 799. So, even if you leave your leatherman in your car when visiting a Space Center, you are committing a Federal Crime.

The postal service has a similar restriction in 39 CFR 232.1(l) prohibiting your leatherman or pocketknife or pistol on the real property of the post office (note: they do exclude most sidewalks). So, all of us Texans that have a CHL and drive through and use the drop-off mailbox are violating a Federal Regulation. Even if you leave your pistol (or rifle or shotgun) in the car, you are still in violation. This is NUTS.

Who knows what other Federal Agencies have hidden away in the Federal Regulations.

Proposal: Insert language similar to that used by the states to indicate the further subdivisions of the Federal Government cannot place more restrictive regulations than those posed by 18 USC 930. If a Federal Agency feels that they need more restrictive weapons laws, let them use the more rigorous criminal code process rather than the "under the radar" Federal Regulation process. (For those that don't know, Fed Regs are written by civil servants, not Congress.)

GH

KBCraig
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#2

Post by KBCraig »

I plan to visit this issue with Ralph Hall (R-TX 1st).

I work for a federal agency that has proposed "codifying" through the CFR their policy prohibited weapons. The crazy thing about this proposal, is that the employees are all law enforcement officers, but the proposed reg would allow outside LEOs to bring their guns onto the grounds, while making criminals of everyone else, including LEO employees!

Ralph Hall is getting up there in years, but he's a stone cold old-school Texas conservative. He believes in everyone's right to carry a gun, and he believes they should do so as often as possible.

Kevin
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jimlongley
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#3

Post by jimlongley »

18 USC 930 is what TSA used to prevent screeners from carrying the knives that we used to open boxes and such that we needed to get into.

Then they provided us with box cutters and scissors.

One day a supervisor saw me opening a box with my SOG Flash and started to get on me about it, until I pointed out that the blade length was less than 2.5" and he should read the CFR.

No one ever gave me a hard time about my knife after that, but I still couldn't carry it past security.
Real gun control, carrying 24/7/365
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flintknapper
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#4

Post by flintknapper »

Blade length only affects the ability to deliver deep stabbing wounds.


With a 3/4" blade.....anywhere on your body that I can take a "pulse", I could inflict a life threating wound.

We are being regulated to death.

IMO, swift, sure punishment for the unlawful USE of a weapon is all that is needed (NO PLEA BARGAINING)!


rant over......sorry.
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longtooth
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#5

Post by longtooth »

It aint a rant if it is the truth.
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cyphur
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#6

Post by cyphur »

Good to know - I carry a CRKT M16-14M everywhere I go - the blade is a little under 4 inches long. I carry it at work(community college) as well as federal buildings.

My boss gave me a warning one time when I pulled it out to cut a box - she told me it was illegal to have weapons on school property. I told her it was a cutting tool. She laughed and dropped it.
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GlockenHammer
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#7

Post by GlockenHammer »

cyphur wrote:My boss gave me a warning one time when I pulled it out to cut a box - she told me it was illegal to have weapons on school property. I told her it was a cutting tool. She laughed and dropped it.
This pretty much makes my point. I've seen many illegal knives in federal facilities, but nobody really cares to enforce it like they do at the airport. Since there is no law against selective enforcement, you'll be just fine until you happen to upset somebody in a federal facility some day and then they use that unenforced law on you and you go to a Federal penetentiary for a year for arguing with an IRS agent with your CRKT clipped neatly in your pocket.

That's why I think the law needs to be reduced to make illegal only weapons really worth making illegal, and I think the state laws in which the facility is located is a good enough standard.
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