McCarthy files H.R.141, requiring background check on all gu

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terryg
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Re: McCarthy files H.R.141, requiring background check on al

#16

Post by terryg » Mon Jan 14, 2013 3:29 pm

RoyGBiv wrote:
terryg wrote: What am I missing?
Paperwork = Forms = Database = Privacy Concerns = de-facto Registration
I understand that concern quite well. But current paperwork is kept on file by the FFL for 10 years and then destroyed. This would be no different. I will vehemently oppose any attempt to create a nation database.
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fickman
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Re: McCarthy files H.R.141, requiring background check on al

#17

Post by fickman » Mon Jan 14, 2013 3:31 pm

terryg wrote:With checks of the wording to ensure private sales are indeed exempt, I would not have a problem with this.
. . .
What am I missing?
RoyGBiv wrote:Paperwork = Forms = Database = Privacy Concerns = de-facto Registration
:iagree:

It's a slippery slope. I like to use reductio ad absurdum to test these ideas and see how they could backfire.

I could meet somebody that owns 50 guns and I'm planning to buy two of them. Does that meet the criteria? I wasn't going to buy all 50, but I guess they're technically for sale - isn't almost everything for the right price?

Do I have to prove that I bought a gun at a residence? How? What if I'm accused of getting it in the parking lot at a gun show?

What about an even trade at a gun show?

What if neither of us has a booth and we're just walking around with shotguns with a "for sale" flag in them? Is that illegal? Only if money changes hands? Can we trade there? Agree to transact later?

Why isn't my car - which is an extension of my home for self defense purposes - adequate? Could I use a motorhome to complete the sale? A tent? A sedan with a sleeping bag and pillow in the backseat?

Two employees of a gun store can't trade guns or sell them to each other at work (before, during, or after the shift)?

I also think there's a middle ground between complete strangers and "welcome you into my house" comfortable. I might sell to a stranger with a CHL. Or an active, long storied poster on here that others seem to know. I wouldn't necessarily invite that person into my house, though.

If I was inclined to compromise, which I'm not, I could potentially hold my nose and swallow a cleaned-up version of this to help our side.

I echo the aforementioned litmus test: what crime would this have stopped? Is this the problem out there? It could become the problem if NICS was fixed with the mental health info, but that hasn't happened yet.
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terryg
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Re: McCarthy files H.R.141, requiring background check on al

#18

Post by terryg » Mon Jan 14, 2013 3:47 pm

fickman wrote:
terryg wrote:With checks of the wording to ensure private sales are indeed exempt, I would not have a problem with this.
. . .
What am I missing?
RoyGBiv wrote:Paperwork = Forms = Database = Privacy Concerns = de-facto Registration
:iagree:
Again, normal FFL transaction with records destroyed after 10 years.
RoyGBiv wrote: It's a slippery slope. I like to use reductio ad absurdum to test these ideas and see how they could backfire.

I could meet somebody that owns 50 guns and I'm planning to buy two of them. Does that meet the criteria? I wasn't going to buy all 50, but I guess they're technically for sale - isn't almost everything for the right price?

Do I have to prove that I bought a gun at a residence? How? What if I'm accused of getting it in the parking lot at a gun show?

What about an even trade at a gun show?

What if neither of us has a booth and we're just walking around with shotguns with a "for sale" flag in them? Is that illegal? Only if money changes hands? Can we trade there? Agree to transact later?

Why isn't my car - which is an extension of my home for self defense purposes - adequate? Could I use a motorhome to complete the sale? A tent? A sedan with a sleeping bag and pillow in the backseat?

Two employees of a gun store can't trade guns or sell them to each other at work (before, during, or after the shift)?

I also think there's a middle ground between complete strangers and "welcome you into my house" comfortable. I might sell to a stranger with a CHL. Or an active, long storied poster on here that others seem to know. I wouldn't necessarily invite that person into my house, though.

If I was inclined to compromise, which I'm not, I could potentially hold my nose and swallow a cleaned-up version of this to help our side.

I echo the aforementioned litmus test: what crime would this have stopped? Is this the problem out there? It could become the problem if NICS was fixed with the mental health info, but that hasn't happened yet.
Sure, I get that. Again, private sales would have to be preserved. I have conducted them myself. And I don't know how much a problem it might be. I am aware of a 1997 survey of inmates show that less than 1% of them got weapons from a gun show. But I am not aware of anything newer and the world has changed some since then. I have seen videos of some pretty irresponsible sales that occur. My private transaction was with another CHL holder - but some gun owners our there are not as responsible.

So, in some ways it can be viewed as either being serious about not selling to felons are not. You didn't answer this question:
Doesn't enabling private sales between two strangers kinda of defeat the point behind both the NCIC process and the concept of protecting private transactions?
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G26ster
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Re: McCarthy files H.R.141, requiring background check on al

#19

Post by G26ster » Mon Jan 14, 2013 3:48 pm

fickman wrote: I might sell to a stranger with a CHL. Or an active, long storied poster on here that others seem to know. I wouldn't necessarily invite that person into my house, though.
You certainly have the right not to invite anyone you choose into your home, and I'm not disputing that, but isn't your statement based on the same logic the anti's use when they state their fear of us carrying in public, that we might go nuts and shoot them?

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fickman
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Re: McCarthy files H.R.141, requiring background check on al

#20

Post by fickman » Mon Jan 14, 2013 7:07 pm

G26ster wrote:[You certainly have the right not to invite anyone you choose into your home, and I'm not disputing that, but isn't your statement based on the same logic the anti's use when they state their fear of us carrying in public, that we might go nuts and shoot them?
Not really. . .

- I can't verify you're a CHL until you're in my house. By then, you already know my address and at least one gun that I own.

- Some people are not welcome in my house and it has nothing to do with a fear that they might go bananas. I also have a wife and four kids that live here as well, so revenuers, dock workers, sailors, Amway salesmen, lawyers, politicians, and Arminians rarely make it past the threshold! (Just kidding on this list, but you get the drift.) "rlol"
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G26ster
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Re: McCarthy files H.R.141, requiring background check on al

#21

Post by G26ster » Mon Jan 14, 2013 8:50 pm

fickman wrote:
G26ster wrote:[You certainly have the right not to invite anyone you choose into your home, and I'm not disputing that, but isn't your statement based on the same logic the anti's use when they state their fear of us carrying in public, that we might go nuts and shoot them?
Not really. . .

- I can't verify you're a CHL until you're in my house. By then, you already know my address and at least one gun that I own.

- Some people are not welcome in my house and it has nothing to do with a fear that they might go bananas. I also have a wife and four kids that live here as well, so revenuers, dock workers, sailors, Amway salesmen, lawyers, politicians, and Arminians rarely make it past the threshold! (Just kidding on this list, but you get the drift.) "rlol"
And the anti's can't verify if we are carrying or not when we are "amongst" them, so they want no one with guns amongst them. Hope you never need a plumber, electrician, etc. I kid, I kid, (ba rump bump) :mrgreen:

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