BATFE To Ban Common AR-15 Ammo

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Abraham
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Re: BATFE To Ban Common AR-15 Ammo

#16

Post by Abraham » Sun Feb 15, 2015 2:52 pm

Someone please refresh my memory - Is the green tip 5.56 62 grain (Lake City) M855?

If so, Walmart was selling it quite recently in 1000 rounds per container.


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Re: BATFE To Ban Common AR-15 Ammo

#17

Post by K.Mooneyham » Sun Feb 15, 2015 3:03 pm

Well, I emailed the ATF public comments my thoughts on the subject, for whatever good it will do. Here is the text of what I emailed them. I tried to focus on sporting purpose, and to keep it realistic.
To Whom It May Concern:

The gist of the ban seems to hinge around whether M855 has a legitimate sporting purpose, or not weighed against the safety of law enforcement. I will attest that I have fired some reasonable amount of the commercially available version of that ammunition, usually marketed as XM855 or the like. Every round I fired was fired at a public shooting range at a paper target. The reasonable accuracy and reasonable cost of the ammunition coupled with availability led me to purchase that ammunition for range use. Additionally, it has a similar weight to certain .223 rounds used for hunting (62 grain for the M855 versus 64 grains for the hunting rounds). The cost of practicing with the hunting rounds can be prohibitive. The availability of the similarly weighted M855 allows for quality practice at a reasonable price. If one is hunting, that is not the time to find out you need more practice, or that the zero of your rifle is off. 55 grain projectiles, though rather affordable, have a different point of impact than 62 grain projectiles. Throughout much of the USA, feral hogs have become a problem. They are destructive of crops and waterways among other things. The .223/5.56 mm cartridge is used by a lot of hunters to dispose of feral hogs. They move fast, in groups, and often require a semi-automatic firearm to make a real impact in their numbers. The .223/5.56 mm cartridge and firearms that use it are likely among the most widely used for the purpose. As previously stated, M855 type ammunition provides a cost attractive way to practice target shooting at the range, and to prepare for hunting feral hogs. There are far more long guns, by an incredible measure, that fire the .223/5.56 mm cartridge than pistols designed to do so. Pistols chambered that way are a niche market at best, despite the hype they receive in firearms publications, internet videos, and social media pages. Thus, I do not believe that removing M855 from the market will do much, if anything, to aid the safety of law enforcement, but it will most certainly negatively impact target shooters, sportsmen/hunters, and farmers. I urge you to grant an on-going exemption for M855 type ammunition on this basis. Thank you for your attention to this matter.

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Re: BATFE To Ban Common AR-15 Ammo

#18

Post by Jumping Frog » Sun Feb 15, 2015 3:59 pm

We have a (R) Congress and an (R) Senate.

Time to put a bill in front of the Oslammer repealing the entire "sporting purpose" nonsense anyway, since the enforcement is entirely arbitrary and capricious. If the (R)'s are smart, they'll embed it in another bill that must get signed, however, even forcing a veto is better than not acting at all.

BTW, other federal agencies have to post a "Notice of Proposed Rulemaking" (NPRM, pronounced as "Nap-rim") in the Federal Register before any regulatory changes. Congress created the requirement to enlighten agencies — that is, to force them to listen to comments and concerns of people whom the regulation will likely affect. The BATFer announcement reads like an absolute, subjective, political joke compared to the serious NAPRM's I've had the duty to review from other federal agencies.

Also, every regulatory change is required by law to publish a cost-benefit analysis and an estimate of the paperwork and other regulatory burden imposed upon the affected people. This clearly does not comply.

So other than this press release, what the heck are the BATFers doing?
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Re: BATFE To Ban Common AR-15 Ammo

#19

Post by Rrash » Mon Feb 16, 2015 10:39 am



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Re: BATFE To Ban Common AR-15 Ammo

#20

Post by BigGuy » Mon Feb 16, 2015 11:23 am

Jumping Frog wrote:We have a (R) Congress and an (R) Senate.

Time to put a bill in front of the Oslammer repealing the entire "sporting purpose" nonsense anyway, since the enforcement is entirely arbitrary and capricious. If the (R)'s are smart, they'll embed it in another bill that must get signed, however, even forcing a veto is better than not acting at all.
Please accept this in the “I seek enlightenment,” spirit in which it is intended, not as a combative argument. Most of my info concerning current gun laws come from this an one other board. Both are populated by people far smarter than me. A point that one person on the Pistol Forum made is:
The three major places it (sporting purposes) appears in federal gun law are to exceptions to otherwise complete bans, so it certainly isn't as simple as just repealing the "test." This is why NRA opposed a number of bills in the mid 2000s to repeal the sporting purpose test for imports. Those bills didn't put anything in place of the test, and would have had the effect of creating an outright ban on importing firearms. I also think the import test would be the easiest to fix, any firearm that can be lawfully sold in the United States should be importable.
Do I understand the the “sporting purposes” test actually reduces the restrictions on types of guns we can own?

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Re: BATFE To Ban Common AR-15 Ammo

#21

Post by anygunanywhere » Mon Feb 16, 2015 12:22 pm

BigGuy wrote:
Jumping Frog wrote:We have a (R) Congress and an (R) Senate.

Time to put a bill in front of the Oslammer repealing the entire "sporting purpose" nonsense anyway, since the enforcement is entirely arbitrary and capricious. If the (R)'s are smart, they'll embed it in another bill that must get signed, however, even forcing a veto is better than not acting at all.
Please accept this in the “I seek enlightenment,” spirit in which it is intended, not as a combative argument. Most of my info concerning current gun laws come from this an one other board. Both are populated by people far smarter than me. A point that one person on the Pistol Forum made is:
The three major places it (sporting purposes) appears in federal gun law are to exceptions to otherwise complete bans, so it certainly isn't as simple as just repealing the "test." This is why NRA opposed a number of bills in the mid 2000s to repeal the sporting purpose test for imports. Those bills didn't put anything in place of the test, and would have had the effect of creating an outright ban on importing firearms. I also think the import test would be the easiest to fix, any firearm that can be lawfully sold in the United States should be importable.
Do I understand the the “sporting purposes” test actually reduces the restrictions on types of guns we can own?
Until the term "sporting purposes" is redefined to what the antis want in order to ban everything.
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Re: BATFE To Ban Common AR-15 Ammo

#22

Post by philip964 » Mon Feb 16, 2015 3:57 pm

23 months. Seems like an eternity.


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Re: BATFE To Ban Common AR-15 Ammo

#23

Post by wil » Tue Feb 17, 2015 6:14 am

Anyone correct me if I'm wrong but if memory serves me correctly, didn't one of the two major supreme court cases either heller or mcdonald (correct names?) specifically mention the banning of any item which directly impacts the ability of an individual to bear arms, ie: ammo, mags, etc, was unconstitutional? Hence illegal?
If I'm remembering this correctly, would this constitute legal grounds to put a stop to this?

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Re: BATFE To Ban Common AR-15 Ammo

#24

Post by rbwhatever1 » Tue Feb 17, 2015 6:53 am

One would think folks are using M855 ball in Pistols to attack all sorts of "armored stuff" from coast to coast creating much turmoil and mayhem for the Crown. I don't have any M855 but this makes me want to order a few thousand rounds to put in storage with my new Ballistic Vest, braced 223 Pistol and any other item I can think of that has been banned in the Kingdom.

We need to ban the BATFE.
III

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Re: BATFE To Ban Common AR-15 Ammo

#25

Post by C-dub » Tue Feb 17, 2015 7:37 am

rbwhatever1 wrote:One would think folks are using M855 ball in Pistols to attack all sorts of "armored stuff" from coast to coast creating much turmoil and mayhem for the Crown. I don't have any M855 but this makes me want to order a few thousand rounds to put in storage with my new Ballistic Vest, braced 223 Pistol and any other item I can think of that has been banned in the Kingdom.

We need to ban the BATFE.
You may be joking just a little there, but if you're serious at all I think you're too late. From what I understand, M855 is already nearly impossible to find and what is left has dramatically gone up in price since this announcement.
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Re: BATFE To Ban Common AR-15 Ammo

#26

Post by The Annoyed Man » Tue Feb 17, 2015 7:59 am

C-dub wrote:
rbwhatever1 wrote:One would think folks are using M855 ball in Pistols to attack all sorts of "armored stuff" from coast to coast creating much turmoil and mayhem for the Crown. I don't have any M855 but this makes me want to order a few thousand rounds to put in storage with my new Ballistic Vest, braced 223 Pistol and any other item I can think of that has been banned in the Kingdom.

We need to ban the BATFE.
You may be joking just a little there, but if you're serious at all I think you're too late. From what I understand, M855 is already nearly impossible to find and what is left has dramatically gone up in price since this announcement.
Yeah, I've just checked my usual resources, and it's pretty much all gone.
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Re: BATFE To Ban Common AR-15 Ammo

#27

Post by XnTx » Tue Feb 17, 2015 10:56 am

I don't need m855 and never had a desire to own any. Until 2/14. My order is in "processing" status. We will see.
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Re: BATFE To Ban Common AR-15 Ammo

#28

Post by TVGuy » Wed Feb 18, 2015 10:40 am

Colion Noir on possible BAFTE ban of XM855:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rs-Pu8n_BHg


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Re: BATFE To Ban Common AR-15 Ammo

#29

Post by rentz » Wed Feb 18, 2015 2:12 pm

TVGuy wrote:Colion Noir on possible BAFTE ban of XM855:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rs-Pu8n_BHg

I enjoy his videos but that one is killing my eyes going in and out of focus.

I have 855 ammo, but i ended up switching to 193 due to some places not allowing the 855/green tip ammo. But as the video says its going to drive the price up on ALL ammo.

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Re: BATFE To Ban Common AR-15 Ammo

#30

Post by The Annoyed Man » Wed Feb 18, 2015 3:13 pm

rentz wrote:
TVGuy wrote:Colion Noir on possible BAFTE ban of XM855:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rs-Pu8n_BHg

I enjoy his videos but that one is killing my eyes going in and out of focus.

I have 855 ammo, but i ended up switching to 193 due to some places not allowing the 855/green tip ammo. But as the video says its going to drive the price up on ALL ammo.
It will temporarily drive the price up on other 5.56 FMJ, if for no other reason than the law of supply and demand. All the M855 buyers are now M193 buyers, and that means an increase in demand for M193, without there having been a pre-scheduled increase in production to offset the demand.

As soon as I got this news, I went into "hoarding" mode. I probably have something like 2,000 M855/SS109 on hand, not counting any of the other variants I have for this caliber. It goes without saying that I won't be shooting any of it until I know that it is replaceable. I also have a couple thousand M193 on hand, and as long as that is replaceable, I'll buy it at the higher price and shoot it, and keep my current inventory intact. But I also buy and have on hand a fair amount of 55 grain soft point (a better choice for SD in my opinion) as well as 68/69/75/77 grain HPBT match.
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