You have to become a FFL?

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cyphertext
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Re: You have to become a FFL?

#31

Post by cyphertext » Tue Jan 05, 2016 7:55 pm

All, "in the business" is already defined by federal statute. If you do not sell firearms regularly with the objective of profiting for your livelihood, then you do not need a license. And if you are selling to another Texas resident, no FFL involvement is needed... An EO can not make law.

(11)
The term “dealer” means (A) any person engaged in the business of selling firearms at wholesale or retail, (B) any person engaged in the business of repairing firearms or of making or fitting special barrels, stocks, or trigger mechanisms to firearms, or (C) any person who is a pawnbroker. The term “licensed dealer” means any dealer who is licensed under the provisions of this chapter.
...
(21) The term “engaged in the business” means—
(A)
as applied to a manufacturer of firearms, a person who devotes time, attention, and labor to manufacturing firearms as a regular course of trade or business with the principal objective of livelihood and profit through the sale or distribution of the firearms manufactured;
(B)
as applied to a manufacturer of ammunition, a person who devotes time, attention, and labor to manufacturing ammunition as a regular course of trade or business with the principal objective of livelihood and profit through the sale or distribution of the ammunition manufactured;
(C)
as applied to a dealer in firearms, as defined in section 921(a)(11)(A), a person who devotes time, attention, and labor to dealing in firearms as a regular course of trade or business with the principal objective of livelihood and profit through the repetitive purchase and resale of firearms, but such term shall not include a person who makes occasional sales, exchanges, or purchases of firearms for the enhancement of a personal collection or for a hobby, or who sells all or part of his personal collection of firearms;
(D)
as applied to a dealer in firearms, as defined in section 921(a)(11)(B), a person who devotes time, attention, and labor to engaging in such activity as a regular course of trade or business with the principal objective of livelihood and profit, but such term shall not include a person who makes occasional repairs of firearms, or who occasionally fits special barrels, stocks, or trigger mechanisms to firearms;
(E)
as applied to an importer of firearms, a person who devotes time, attention, and labor to importing firearms as a regular course of trade or business with the principal objective of livelihood and profit through the sale or distribution of the firearms imported; and
(F)
as applied to an importer of ammunition, a person who devotes time, attention, and labor to importing ammunition as a regular course of trade or business with the principal objective of livelihood and profit through the sale or distribution of the ammunition imported.


mreed911
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Re: You have to become a FFL?

#32

Post by mreed911 » Tue Jan 05, 2016 7:58 pm

jerry_r60 wrote:
rentz wrote:I think it's a scare tactic I don't see how they could prosecute someone when it's not clearly laid out what in the business of dealing and personal collection selling is all they say is it could be as little as selling 1-2 if there are other circumstances well what are those circumstances

And how would they plan to enforce any of this ?
Where the prosecution could come is when the gun you sold gets stolen, then used in a crime and tracked back to you as the buyer but you sold without an ffl and background check.
They're not making it illegal to sell a gun person-to-person. They're confirming it illegal to make a business of doing so.

The scenario you're proposing doesn't make you an offender, you've broken no laws (unless, of course, you falsely held yourself out as a dealer).

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SA_Steve
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Re: You have to become a FFL?

#33

Post by SA_Steve » Tue Jan 05, 2016 10:08 pm

"in the business" is already defined by federal statute." nope
its an ATF CFR changeable by the normal process of public comment, ignore, codify by publication
just like the EPA, IRS, PHMSA, FAA, etc. do
You may have the last word.

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CleverNickname
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Re: You have to become a FFL?

#34

Post by CleverNickname » Tue Jan 05, 2016 10:59 pm

SA_Steve wrote:"in the business" is already defined by federal statute." nope
its an ATF CFR changeable by the normal process of public comment, ignore, codify by publication
just like the EPA, IRS, PHMSA, FAA, etc. do
No, it's defined in 18 USC 921 as quoted by cyphertext above.


jerry_r60
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Re: You have to become a FFL?

#35

Post by jerry_r60 » Wed Jan 06, 2016 7:20 pm

mreed911 wrote:
jerry_r60 wrote:
rentz wrote:I think it's a scare tactic I don't see how they could prosecute someone when it's not clearly laid out what in the business of dealing and personal collection selling is all they say is it could be as little as selling 1-2 if there are other circumstances well what are those circumstances

And how would they plan to enforce any of this ?
Where the prosecution could come is when the gun you sold gets stolen, then used in a crime and tracked back to you as the buyer but you sold without an ffl and background check.
They're not making it illegal to sell a gun person-to-person. They're confirming it illegal to make a business of doing so.

The scenario you're proposing doesn't make you an offender, you've broken no laws (unless, of course, you falsely held yourself out as a dealer).
I didn't say you would be convicted, you might not. That often depends on how deep your pockets are. But years down the road and someone is looking for a scapegoat for the crime....


mreed911
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Re: You have to become a FFL?

#36

Post by mreed911 » Wed Jan 06, 2016 7:41 pm

jerry_r60 wrote:I didn't say you would be convicted, you might not. That often depends on how deep your pockets are. But years down the road and someone is looking for a scapegoat for the crime....
That fear is unfounded.

Read. The. ATF. Guidance. Doc.

It has scenarios that make this very clear.

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