BATFE: Bump-Stock-Type Devices: Notice of proposed rulemaking

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jason812
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Re: BATFE: Bump-Stock-Type Devices: Notice of proposed rulemaking

#61

Post by jason812 » Thu Nov 29, 2018 11:21 am

Congratulations to the elite who set up the false flag to get these banned. One incident where the public doesn't even know the truth and a new rule gets forced upon the people by a federal agency without a vote in Congress.

80% lowers and pistol frames will be next.


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Re: BATFE: Bump-Stock-Type Devices: Notice of proposed rulemaking

#62

Post by howdy » Thu Nov 29, 2018 7:20 pm

From the final rule:

"The rule will amend 27 CFR 447.11, 478.11, and 479.11 to clarify that bump-stock-type devices are machineguns as defined by the NFA and GCA because such devices allow a shooter of a semiautomatic firearm to initiate a continuous firing cycle with a single pull of the trigger. Specifically, these devices convert an otherwise semiautomatic firearm into a machinegun by functioning as a self-acting or self-regulating mechanism that harnesses the recoil energy of the semiautomatic firearm in a manner that allows the trigger to reset and continue firing without additional physical manipulation of the trigger by the shooter."

This is incorrect. The trigger is pulled with every round fired. The trigger finger engages the trigger each and every time.

Article from CNN:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/exclu ... ar-BBQe9zl

"Under the new rule, bump stock owners would be required to destroy or surrender the devices to authorities. Members of the public will be given 90 days to turn in or otherwise discard their bump stocks"

Here we go with a cabinet department making a lawful activity a felony with a new rule.
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Re: BATFE: Bump-Stock-Type Devices: Notice of proposed rulemaking

#63

Post by TreyHouston » Thu Nov 29, 2018 7:29 pm

This is very confusing!
"Jump in there sport, get it done and we'll all sing your praises." -Chas

How many times a day could you say this? :cheers2:

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The Annoyed Man
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Re: BATFE: Bump-Stock-Type Devices: Notice of proposed rulemaking

#64

Post by The Annoyed Man » Thu Nov 29, 2018 8:17 pm

TreyHouston wrote:
Thu Nov 29, 2018 7:29 pm
This is very confusing!
It shouldn’t be. The elitists have declared that something we all know does NOT happen, does in fact happen. We all know that a bump stock does not cause one trigger pull to fire multiple rounds ... that what it does do is to accelerate the rate at which single trigger pulls are achieved. But elitists have declared that, no, that’s not what is happening. They declare it so, because they will it so - never mind that the emperor has no clothes. Now, who are you going to believe? An elitist who has never fired a rifle, or your lying eyes?
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Re: BATFE: Bump-Stock-Type Devices: Notice of proposed rulemaking

#65

Post by RicoTX » Thu Nov 29, 2018 11:44 pm

I don't own a bump stock type device, but have to say it only reinforces my belief that we are losing the war on freedom... not because of the device ban itself, but the ease with which almost all politicians, including the president, wanted it... even though we all know it does nothing but punish honest citizens. What is next? Who knows? In my opinion we are just like frogs in boiling water so to speak. Some of us may realize what's going to happen eventually, but not enough to make a difference and find a way out.
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Re: BATFE: Bump-Stock-Type Devices: Notice of proposed rulemaking

#66

Post by The Annoyed Man » Fri Nov 30, 2018 12:21 am

RicoTX wrote:
Thu Nov 29, 2018 11:44 pm
I don't own a bump stock type device, but have to say it only reinforces my belief that we are losing the war on freedom... not because of the device ban itself, but the ease with which almost all politicians, including the president, wanted it... even though we all know it does nothing but punish honest citizens. What is next? Who knows? In my opinion we are just like frogs in boiling water so to speak. Some of us may realize what's going to happen eventually, but not enough to make a difference and find a way out.
I am of the opinion that they are useless, and I never did want one for myself. I am never going to assault a fortified position with inferior numbers, so high rates of fire are meaningless to me. I’ve always been a big believer in accurate semiauto fire. I care a lot more about being able to double tap than being able to fire a burst. But that changes nothing. Just because I don’t want one, doesn’t mean that I don’t care if they’re banned. I care very much if they’re banned. If they can ban someone else’s bump stock, they can ban my magazine capacity, or my flash hider, or my forward pistol grip, or my suppressor, or my binary trigger (if I had one), etc., etc., etc. It’s death by a thousand cuts.

I get it that there exists no political will anywhere - not even at the NRA - to try and preserve the right to own them. I get it. NOBODY, or almost nobody, is going to stand up for the right to own one. The panic-mongers have successfully sold the public on the lie that bump stocks convert rifles into machine guns. The number of rational voices who are willing to speak up and say, hey, wait a minute, are too few to stop the juggernaut. But that doesn’t make it right. I tweeted a long thread about it this evening: https://twitter.com/theannoyedman/statu ... 86496?s=21
Give me Liberty, or I'll get up and get it myself.—Hookalakah Meshobbab
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Re: BATFE: Bump-Stock-Type Devices: Notice of proposed rulemaking

#67

Post by RicoTX » Fri Nov 30, 2018 8:13 am

Great thread TAM. I guess my fear is that by the time people figure out the liberty tree needs water, nobody will have a water can, or at least be willing to use it while the tree still looks to be healthy even though the roots are almost dead.
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Re: BATFE: Bump-Stock-Type Devices: Notice of proposed rulemaking

#68

Post by spectre » Fri Nov 30, 2018 12:57 pm

TreyHouston wrote:
Thu Nov 29, 2018 7:29 pm
This is very confusing!
We got NPS carry from Obama and a bump stock ban from Trump. Maybe I voted for the wrong party. :???:
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Not emotionally or financially
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Re: BATFE: Bump-Stock-Type Devices: Notice of proposed rulemaking

#69

Post by K.Mooneyham » Mon Dec 03, 2018 12:15 pm

From the Final Rule, this is the largest lie told: "Without this rule, public safety will continue to be threatened by the widespread availability to the public of bump-stock-devices." ONE reported incident (the information received by the public was incredibly scant), out of how many individuals who own bump-fire stocks? A giant meteor MAY someday strike the Earth again, destroying all human life. Therefore, ALL giant space rocks that COULD wipe out humanity MUST be destroyed, therefore ALL of human endeavor MUST be directed at destroying said giant space rocks. Yes, I am being facetious, but I'm merely taking their logic to its conclusion.

Let the lawsuits commence.


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Re: BATFE: Bump-Stock-Type Devices: Notice of proposed rulemaking

#70

Post by Rubicon » Mon Dec 03, 2018 8:28 pm

jason812 wrote:
Thu Nov 29, 2018 11:21 am
Congratulations to the elite who set up the false flag to get these banned. One incident where the public doesn't even know the truth and a new rule gets forced upon the people by a federal agency without a vote in Congress.
Never let a crisis go to waste, especially after going through all the trouble to create a crisis.
the die is cast

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Re: BATFE: Bump-Stock-Type Devices: Notice of proposed rulemaking

#71

Post by Charles L. Cotton » Mon Dec 03, 2018 10:00 pm

spectre wrote:
Fri Nov 30, 2018 12:57 pm
TreyHouston wrote:
Thu Nov 29, 2018 7:29 pm
This is very confusing!
We got NPS carry from Obama . . . :???:
Well, not really. The NPS language was added to Obama's credit card bill that he just couldn't veto.

Chas.
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Re: BATFE: Bump-Stock-Type Devices: Notice of proposed rulemaking

#72

Post by Lumberjack98 » Tue Dec 04, 2018 1:34 pm

The Annoyed Man wrote:
Fri Nov 30, 2018 12:21 am
I get it that there exists no political will anywhere - not even at the NRA - to try and preserve the right to own them.
Wow, you're right. I found the following comment on the NRA's website:

NRA's Wayne LaPierre and Chris Cox Issue Joint Statement
(FAIRFAX, VA) - The National Rifle Association today issued the following statement:

"In the aftermath of the evil and senseless attack in Las Vegas, the American people are looking for answers as to how future tragedies can be prevented. Unfortunately, the first response from some politicians has been to call for more gun control. Banning guns from law-abiding Americans based on the criminal act of a madman will do nothing to prevent future attacks. This is a fact that has been proven time and again in countries across the world. In Las Vegas, reports indicate that certain devices were used to modify the firearms involved. Despite the fact that the Obama administration approved the sale of bump fire stocks on at least two occasions, the National Rifle Association is calling on the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (BATFE) to immediately review whether these devices comply with federal law. The NRA believes that devices designed to allow semi-automatic rifles to function like fully-automatic rifles should be subject to additional regulations. In an increasingly dangerous world, the NRA remains focused on our mission: strengthening Americans' Second Amendment freedom to defend themselves, their families and their communities. To that end, on behalf of our five million members across the country, we urge Congress to pass National Right-to-Carry reciprocity, which will allow law-abiding Americans to defend themselves and their families from acts of violence."

I'm late to the party on this, but am aligned with TAM's thinking.
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Re: BATFE: Bump-Stock-Type Devices: Notice of proposed rulemaking

#73

Post by jason812 » Tue Dec 04, 2018 1:51 pm

I have fired a rifle with bump stock. They are fun but impractical. I would much rather have a fully automatic rifle or one with a 3 round burst. Sadly, I doubt I will ever legally be able to buy one either due to the costs or future rules/laws that will prevent me from obtaining one. Last year and earlier this year, I was hopeful we would be graciously allowed to by unregulated suppressors but that is shaping up to be a pipe dream as well.

I understand the NRA's statement about the bump stocks. The organization has to uphold an image, maintain membership/cash flow, plus operate in very hostile waters (DC). It would just add fuel to the hatred of the NRA if they were for keeping bump stocks around. That doesn't mean I agree with the statement. Its funny or sad but they (the NRA) are stuck in the middle. To the antis, the NRA is the most evil organization around. To those who believe "Shall not be infinged" means just that, they do not fully support our 2A rights.

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Re: BATFE: Bump-Stock-Type Devices: Notice of proposed rulemaking

#74

Post by bigtek » Tue Dec 04, 2018 4:05 pm

The enemies of the constitution were going to demonize them either way, so I'm not sure what they really gained, but hopefully it will be worth more than they lose in the long run.
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Re: BATFE: Bump-Stock-Type Devices: Notice of proposed rulemaking

#75

Post by Charles L. Cotton » Tue Dec 04, 2018 4:25 pm

One must pick one battles. I will not say more on a public forum monitored by enemies of the Second Amendment.

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