SCOTUS Agrees To Hear Case That May Ultimately Undermine ATF Power

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jason812
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SCOTUS Agrees To Hear Case That May Ultimately Undermine ATF Power

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Post by jason812 »

Pawpaw brought this up in the bump stock ban thread. I figured it was significant enough to warrant a separate thread.

English was my worse subject in school. I have trouble reading legalese. If this goes through and the outcome is good for the country, can anybody please explain how far back and what ATF regs will be kicked to the curb?

This could be good regarding a lot of alphabet agencies authority. Besides the ATF, I would love to see the EPA reeled in.
Pawpaw wrote: Tue Dec 11, 2018 8:10 pm This may make the whole thing a moot point:

SCOTUS Agrees To Hear Case That May Ultimately Undermine ATF Power
Recently, there has been a push from some quarters to reconsider Auer deference, Chevron deference, and other aspects of the modern administrative law state, and overturn them as being inherently unconstitutional; specifically, that such deference to bureaucratic decisions violates the required Separation of Powers.

Were that to happen, the current administrative state would be rocked to its core. While there have been some rumblings from Justice Thomas and others in this regard, there did not appear to be a majority on the Supreme Court interested in potentially unleashing this kind of political earthquake. (Scalia and Kennedy were, at best, squishy on the issue.)

Today, however, the Supreme Court granted cert in a case, Kisor v. Wilkie, that specifically challenges whether Auer deference is constitutional. With the addition of Justices Gorsuch and Kavanaugh — both of whom have expressed reservations about the current state of administrative law — there may now indeed be the five votes needed to begin to undo the decades-long abdication of power to the vast federal bureaucracy, including BATFE.
In certain extreme situations, the law is inadequate. In order to shame its inadequacy, it is necessary to act outside the law to pursue a natural justice.

Ameer
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Re: SCOTUS Agrees To Hear Case That May Ultimately Undermine ATF Power

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Post by Ameer »

jason812 wrote: Tue Dec 11, 2018 8:25 pm English was my worse subject in school. I have trouble reading legalese. If this goes through and the outcome is good for the country, can anybody please explain how far back and what ATF regs will be kicked to the curb?
https://www.nationalreview.com/2018/12/ ... eat-again/

It's a lawsuit against the VA so I don't think it would roll back any ATF regulations but it would open the door to lower court judges being able to acknowledge when the emperor has no clothes, instead of being bound by precedent that falsely says otherwise.
I believe the basic political division in this country is not between liberals and conservatives but between those who believe that they should have a say in the personal lives of strangers and those who do not.
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ScottDLS
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Re: SCOTUS Agrees To Hear Case That May Ultimately Undermine ATF Power

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Post by ScottDLS »

Ameer wrote: Wed Dec 12, 2018 12:11 pm
jason812 wrote: Tue Dec 11, 2018 8:25 pm English was my worse subject in school. I have trouble reading legalese. If this goes through and the outcome is good for the country, can anybody please explain how far back and what ATF regs will be kicked to the curb?
https://www.nationalreview.com/2018/12/ ... eat-again/
I read the article too and I have to say it's a stretch. Undoubtedly there would be significant benefits to reining in the administrative state. However, I don't really get the leap from this case to ATF regulations. SCOTUS tends to rule relatively narrowly in these kinds of cases and then let the lower courts expand from their opinion in other cases with similar issues. Maybe the ruling will broadly alter the previous deference of the courts to agencies own interpretations of their technical regulations. But I still don't see the broad ranging effect visa vi the pro-gun community. ATF technical regulations tend to deal with obscure issues related to manufacturing and classifying firearms. Some of are interest to NFA gun enthusiasts.

The proposed bump stock regulations are the only thing I could see peripherally related to this case. And there are many good legal arguments against the proposed regs without this case. All of which will likely be ignored in view of the need to "do something" and head off further statutory regulation of semi-autos, but I digress.

Complete side note. If you are interested in a really well written (IMO) technical ruling in a federal civil case, take a look at the anti-SLAPP motion in the Stephanie Clifford (aka Stormy) vs. Trump suit. It was quite a read (to me anyway).

https://www.politico.com/f/?id=00000166 ... efca860002
4/13/1996 Completed CHL Class, 4/16/1996 Fingerprints, Affidavits, and Application Mailed, 10/4/1996 Received CHL, renewed 1998, 2002, 2006, 2011, 2016...). "ATF... Uhhh...heh...heh....Alcohol, tobacco, and GUNS!! Cool!!!!"
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