New defensive based shooting sport being launched

[canvasbck]

A new "hybrid" shooting sport is being launched. It is a defensive based sport that defines the use of cover through the use of fault lines. Reloads are left up to the shooter as far as when/where/how, but shooters are limited to two extra mags so ammo management will be a part of running a stage. The name of the new sport is Premier Action Shooting Sports.

We have held two pilot matches so far and are tweaking the rules. Feedback from the first two matches has been great. More pilot matches will be coming soon!

A website is currently in design and will be launched after the pilot matches have been completed.

If you have the chance to shoot one of the upcoming pilot matches come on out and have a say in how the new sport is shaped. Dates and times of pilot matches will be shared here and on Facebook as soon as details are finalized.

[tomdavis]

Sounds very interesting. Need more details on where and when for the pilot matches; FaceBook ID and how to sign up.

[canvasbck]

Facebook page will hopefully be launched for Premier this week (If the darn company that I hired for the logo finishes the work they are supposed to be doing )

Talking with several clubs about pilot matches two clubs have committed to hosting them, just have to nail down dates. I'm feverishly searching for a club that would be willing to host one Aug 30 since it's a third Saturday. Both of the pilots we have run so far have been indoors, really wanting to test this thing outdoors.

[DanD]

What do the targets look like and how are they scored?

How is PASS different than IDPA?

Hopefully your website will be up soon and we can learn more about PASS.

[gwashorn]

Having shot both of the two pilot matches this past week I can honestly say it is a blast. As noted it is a hybrid form of present styles of defensive shooting sports presently available. The simplicity of this hybrid version makes it easy to learn however, the openness for some decisions the competitor may have to decide on what the best course of action to take on the stage adds to the difficulty not to unlike real life. No sport can completely mimic the real world but at least to me this one adds the element that I have to make choices while at the same time having a really good time. I still have to manage ammo, be smart about how I shoot and use cover etc. but depending on the stage design I may find shooting it one way is better than the other and that may depend on my own capabilities versus another. So I like the personal challenge. I would say give it a try, you might like it.

Also, as Canvasbck said, the rules are still be tweaked based on those trying it out and giving their input. So nothing to lose and certainly could be something gained. Besides, you will be out running and shooting your gun, and that is fun.

[canvasbck]

What do the targets look like and how are they scored?

How is PASS different than IDPA?

Hopefully your website will be up soon and we can learn more about PASS.

The scoring will be a vickers type scoring system.

Targets: Imagine the USPSA target with the A zone slid up to where it shares a border with the head area. Head area will be called NPH (no penalty head), and the other will be NPT (torso). A +1 AP (accuracy penalty) area will surround the NP area and the outer scoring area will be +2 AP, misses score 5 AP. Each AP adds .5 seconds to the raw time. No FTN penalties.

Differences from IDPA:

Multiple hits on a no-shoot will each be scored as a hit on a no shoot and add 5 seconds to the raw time.

Concealment required on 50% of stages with a hot weather rule; if ambient temperature is forecast to be above 90 during a match, concealment rules are waved.

There is no such thing as a cover call. Fault lines will define where the shooting areas are, there will be times you are forced really tight into cover and other times you can shoot while crossing (or in) a gap. We have a blind transition rule that allows course designers to set a fault line that forces the shooter to stay in cover for an original array of targets and still have targets deeper behind cover that can not be seen while in cover for the original targets. It's a little hard to describe in a post, but is pretty clear in the rule book.

Reload whenever/however (you can reload on the move and dump a partial magazine). once a magazine is dumped on the ground for a reload, it is "out of play" and can't be picked up. A magazine that falls from a mag carrier can be picked up and used.

CDP guns will fall into the "large bore pistol" division and will compete against .40's and even against revolvers that make the division. (capacity of 8 for all guns in LBP)

There will be race gun and race revolver divisions that have some special rules for them.

Lot's of other differences that would take forever to go through. We are confident that we found the exact middle in between USPSA and IDPA.

Unfortunately, the website won't launch for 6-8 weeks. Apparently the "really good" website design companies take a little time.

[DanD]

I really like IDPA because of the defensive pistol aspect. I have not really been that interested in USPSA. I would be interested in trying out your new shooting sport. Let us know when you have a match setup.

[TexasCajun]

I've only just started IDPA, but this sounds fun too. Keep us updated as things develop.

[canvasbck]

Our facebook page is now up! https://www.facebook.com/Premieractions ... sitefooter

Help us pile up the "likes" and stay tuned in for match announcements and other announcements regarding the new sport.

[jimlongley]

Reload whenever/however (you can reload on the move and dump a partial magazine). once a magazine is dumped on the ground for a reload, it is "out of play" and can't be picked up. A magazine that falls from a mag carrier can be picked up and used.

It's normally a real time consumer, but what is the rule about retaining a partial mag that does not hit the ground? Say I know that I want to transit this area with a full mag, can I change mags and retain the partial for later use (as long as it doesn't hit the ground)? What method must I use to retain the mag, can I carry it in my hand, mouth, ear, or must it go in a pocket or mag holder?

[Cedar Park Dad]

Reload whenever/however (you can reload on the move and dump a partial magazine). once a magazine is dumped on the ground for a reload, it is "out of play" and can't be picked up. A magazine that falls from a mag carrier can be picked up and used.

It's normally a real time consumer, but what is the rule about retaining a partial mag that does not hit the ground? Say I know that I want to transit this area with a full mag, can I change mags and retain the partial for later use (as long as it doesn't hit the ground)? What method must I use to retain the mag, can I carry it in my hand, mouth, ear, or must it go in a pocket or mag holder?

I do believe that would unfairly advantage the large eared.

[canvasbck]

Reload whenever/however (you can reload on the move and dump a partial magazine). once a magazine is dumped on the ground for a reload, it is "out of play" and can't be picked up. A magazine that falls from a mag carrier can be picked up and used.

It's normally a real time consumer, but what is the rule about retaining a partial mag that does not hit the ground? Say I know that I want to transit this area with a full mag, can I change mags and retain the partial for later use (as long as it doesn't hit the ground)? What method must I use to retain the mag, can I carry it in my hand, mouth, ear, or must it go in a pocket or mag holder?

That is left up to the shooter, just like it would be in real life. We try to allow the shooter to respond as close to real life as possible, within safety constraints. Rules that wouldn't apply in a real situation have been weeded out of our rulebook other than some situations where shooters could be training bad habits. Experimenting with places to stow a magazine for future use is a good way to find what works well and what doesn't, while the bad guys are made of cardboard.

When we developed the rules, we understand that defensive situations are dynamic in nature and there is no way to completely simulate a real scenario. The goal of our sport is to put a situation in front of the shooter and allow the shooter to figure out what is the best way for them to get through the scenario with their current skill set. Other than positioning fault lines in a place that forces the use of cover, (since using cover is still a very valuable skill set to train) we want shooters to be free to SAFELY engage targets in the best way for them instead of focusing on a rigid rule set. Shooters should be able to identify skills that they need to train on by watching others navigate scenarios more efficiently than they can currently. Hence the tag line: Test Yourself - Before Life Does.

[Cedar Park Dad]

Other than the sometimes cover rule and 2 mag limit, how is this different than USPSA?

Our local club about once a month will use USPSA but IDPA scoring. Normal IDPA players usually just play with their two mags like normal (I'll do it that way). This sounds an awful lot like that.

Yes cover should be optional when its over 90. Call it the "Texas" Rule .

EDIT: One thing IDPA does that I like are BUG matches. The rules are pretty good for those and they are quite enjoyable.
You might think about incorporating similar.

[canvasbck]

Other than the sometimes cover rule and 2 mag limit, how is this different than USPSA?

Our local club about once a month will use USPSA but IDPA scoring. Normal IDPA players usually just play with their two mags like normal (I'll do it that way). This sounds an awful lot like that.

Yes cover should be optional when its over 90. Call it the "Texas" Rule .

EDIT: One thing IDPA does that I like are BUG matches. The rules are pretty good for those and they are quite enjoyable.
You might think about incorporating similar.

It will be similar to the hybrid matches that many IDPA clubs are putting on, with some notable differences. Being halfway in between the two sports, most IDPA shooters who have not shot it yet, but have gone over the rules say "It looks like USPSA". USPSA shooters in the same boat tend to say "It looks like IDPA"

At the test matches, shooters from both sports have really enjoyed the new format. It's not like their normal format, but not all the way to "the other" format either.

You're right, IDPA is onto a very good concept with their BUG matches. They have done a wonderful job developing a seperate match for BUGs. Quite frankly, I have had trouble coming up with a BUG match format that does not risk copyright infringement. We are working to develop a way to fairly integrate BUGs into a regular match, but we aren't there yet.

[Cedar Park Dad]

Other than the sometimes cover rule and 2 mag limit, how is this different than USPSA?

Our local club about once a month will use USPSA but IDPA scoring. Normal IDPA players usually just play with their two mags like normal (I'll do it that way). This sounds an awful lot like that.

Yes cover should be optional when its over 90. Call it the "Texas" Rule .

EDIT: One thing IDPA does that I like are BUG matches. The rules are pretty good for those and they are quite enjoyable.
You might think about incorporating similar.

It will be similar to the hybrid matches that many IDPA clubs are putting on, with some notable differences. Being halfway in between the two sports, most IDPA shooters who have not shot it yet, but have gone over the rules say "It looks like USPSA". USPSA shooters in the same boat tend to say "It looks like IDPA"

At the test matches, shooters from both sports have really enjoyed the new format. It's not like their normal format, but not all the way to "the other" format either.

You're right, IDPA is onto a very good concept with their BUG matches. They have done a wonderful job developing a seperate match for BUGs. Quite frankly, I have had trouble coming up with a BUG match format that does not risk copyright infringement. We are working to develop a way to fairly integrate BUGs into a regular match, but we aren't there yet.

You can copy right infringe a match? You learn something every day. I'd proffer keep your normal rules for everything, but consider something like 1 additional mag/revolver load (vs. two) / # of target limitations, and distance limitations.

How do your forearms categories work (sorry if this is on FB, I'm not on FB, although strangely a tribute fan site to my old wiener dog is)?
How do you keep street guns, race guns, and formula 1 race guns ( ) separate?

Also in case it wasn't clear in my earlier post, I like the hybrid matches.