New IDPA Rules

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TEX
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New IDPA Rules

#1

Post by TEX » Tue Nov 17, 2015 7:13 pm

Anyone know when the IDPA rules are supposed to change. I heard they are changing the points down to 1 second, but I also heard they are changing how non-threats will be scored. Any information would be appreciated.
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Re: New IDPA Rules

#2

Post by BCGlocker » Tue Nov 17, 2015 7:59 pm

I am also interested in the answer.
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Re: New IDPA Rules

#3

Post by Skiprr » Wed Nov 18, 2015 3:03 am

I hate to admit it, but the rules process changes over the past two years led me to decide to drop my SO certification. May just be me, but I think IDPA did themselves a disservice in the way they decided to handle the rules and SO recertification.
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Re: New IDPA Rules

#4

Post by Charles L. Cotton » Wed Nov 18, 2015 9:31 am

Skiprr wrote:I hate to admit it, but the rules process changes over the past two years led me to decide to drop my SO certification. May just be me, but I think IDPA did themselves a disservice in the way they decided to handle the rules and SO recertification.
It's not just you; I didn't renew my SO certification either.

Chas.

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Re: New IDPA Rules

#5

Post by C-dub » Wed Nov 18, 2015 9:53 am

My club dropped their IDPA membership.
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Re: New IDPA Rules

#6

Post by CleverNickname » Wed Nov 18, 2015 10:20 am

My club isn't dropping IDPA, but there's a lot more interest in becoming a USPSA club.

With Carry Optics being rejected as a new IDPA division, Carry Optics being a new (provisional) USPSA division and me having an RMR on my carry gun, I was leaning more towards USPSA even before IDPA came up with this silly new scoring system.


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Re: New IDPA Rules

#7

Post by TxD » Wed Nov 18, 2015 10:22 am

[quote="Charles L. Cotton"][quote="Skiprr"]I hate to admit it, but the rules process changes over the past two years led me to decide to drop my SO certification. May just be me, but I think IDPA did themselves a disservice in the way they decided to handle the rules and SO recertification.[/quote]

It's not just you; I didn't renew my SO certification either.

Chas.[/quote]
Ditto.
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Re: New IDPA Rules

#8

Post by Skiprr » Thu Nov 19, 2015 4:57 am

TxD wrote:
Charles L. Cotton wrote:
Skiprr wrote:I hate to admit it, but the rules process changes over the past two years led me to decide to drop my SO certification. May just be me, but I think IDPA did themselves a disservice in the way they decided to handle the rules and SO recertification.
It's not just you; I didn't renew my SO certification either.

Chas.
Ditto.
Wow. I thought I was an outlier, but if Charles and Dave came to the same conclusion--far more IDPA SO and MD experience than I'll ever have--then that's evidence to me that something definitely is broken in IDPA HQ.

I ain't stating or in any way even implying nepotism, but the weirdness began when Joyce Wilson was appointed Executive Director. Many good things have come under her administration, but also many strange things that have driven stalwarts like Charles and Dave and me from IDPA's ranks.

IDPA HQ, my humble suggestions are:
  • Listen to your membership; first and foremost
  • Do not disassociate with and alienate yourself from those dedicated SOs and Match Directors who got you where you are today
  • Recognize that you are a small business and stop acting like you're bigger than you are: you ain't Exxon Mobil
  • If you lose the grassroots competitor, you lose much more than the match
  • Repeat that last item...over and over
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Re: New IDPA Rules

#9

Post by BCGlocker » Thu Nov 19, 2015 7:32 am

Can someone elaborate the rule problems with IDPA?
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Re: New IDPA Rules

#10

Post by gwashorn » Sat Nov 21, 2015 7:28 pm

Skiprr wrote:
TxD wrote:
Charles L. Cotton wrote:
Skiprr wrote:I hate to admit it, but the rules process changes over the past two years led me to decide to drop my SO certification. May just be me, but I think IDPA did themselves a disservice in the way they decided to handle the rules and SO recertification.
It's not just you; I didn't renew my SO certification either.

Chas.
Ditto.
Wow. I thought I was an outlier, but if Charles and Dave came to the same conclusion--far more IDPA SO and MD experience than I'll ever have--then that's evidence to me that something definitely is broken in IDPA HQ.

I ain't stating or in any way even implying nepotism, but the weirdness began when Joyce Wilson was appointed Executive Director. Many good things have come under her administration, but also many strange things that have driven stalwarts like Charles and Dave and me from IDPA's ranks.

IDPA HQ, my humble suggestions are:
  • Listen to your membership; first and foremost
  • Do not disassociate with and alienate yourself from those dedicated SOs and Match Directors who got you where you are today
  • Recognize that you are a small business and stop acting like you're bigger than you are: you ain't Exxon Mobil
  • If you lose the grassroots competitor, you lose much more than the match
  • Repeat that last item...over and over
Well, you guys aren't alone, I am in your corner, I did not renew mine either. I was planning on working at other major matches to learn to move up in the SOs etc. Not anymore. Content to run local and keep up with all the rules, study and such. But right now, I let my SO creds, lapse
Gary
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Re: New IDPA Rules

#11

Post by ea40ss » Sun Nov 22, 2015 12:03 pm

I also didn't renew the SO Certification. I let it expire last month.
Still an IDPA member though.

Eric


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Re: New IDPA Rules

#12

Post by DanD » Sun Nov 22, 2015 2:21 pm

It is my understanding that there will be no major rule changes until 2017.

I have been reading about the 1-second per point down rule change here:
http://idpaforum.yuku.com/topic/12050/O ... Point-Down
http://idpaforum.yuku.com/topic/12100/One-point-down

Reading those discussions it looks like the IDPA powers that be are looking at the 1-second per point down rule change in 2017 to emphasize accuracy over speed.

My club has a BUG only match about once a year with a great turnout and they are really fun. Unfortunately, the IDPA March 2015 v1.1 rule book states that BUG only matches must be approved as a Sanctioned match by IDPA headquarters. Reading the IDPA forums it is clear a lot of clubs are holding outlaw BUG only matches anyway. On the flip side, IDPA requires Tier 1 (i.e. local club) to support the BUG division. Since March 2015, I have been shooting BUG almost exclusively with my carry gun and I shoot significantly better with it now. I also shoot my SSP gun much better now to.

Here is the quote from the IDPA March 2015 v1.1 rule book:
1.2 Match Administration Rules
1.2.2 Specialty Matches
Specialty matches, such as Revolver only, BUG only, women only, a single manufacturer only match, etc., must be approved as a Sanctioned match by IDPA headquarters. All competitors in a Specialty match will earn one (1) Nationals match point.
Perhaps the biggest IDPA rule change that caused the most angst among shooters was the flat footed reload rule. I know some shooters that left IDPA because of it. I started shooting IDPA a few years ago so all I know is the flat footed reload and now it is so ingrained in me that it has become very difficult for me to reload on the move. I keep practicing reloads on the move and I will someday get good at it. IDPA eventually did change the rule in 2015.
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Re: New IDPA Rules

#13

Post by LTUME1978 » Mon Nov 23, 2015 8:43 am

I am disappointed that so many are dropping out of IDPA or letting their SO certification lapse. I don't like all of the changes or some of the rules either but it is the best option that we have for some type of "concealed carry" sport. I have "played" USPSA a couple of times. If you want to shoot a lot and have fun, that is a good game. However, I think it has no value in "real world" application.

I have taken training classes at CSAT to get some real world training. If you want to get better prepared for a potential self defense application, work up to the Advanced Individual Tactics Class that is taught there. Paul teaches accuracy over speed. Since he spent 10 years in Delta and has have plenty of "real world applications" under his belt, I will listen to what he has to say. Paul's "zero down area" is a 6" X 13" box (plus the head) on his target. Any hits outside that box (or head if instructed to shoot at that for the drill) are a miss. He teaches reloads behind cover, no shooting on the move in the open (run across an open area as quickly as possible), etc.

I think it would be great for some of the IDPA leadership take that class then rethink their rules to improve the sport and make it more useful for concealed carry holders. I would like to see the zero down change from an 8" circle to the 6" X 13" box as Paul teaches us that the preferred shot placement is in an area between the 8" circle and the head on an IDPA target (you get a 1 point down bonus for shooting there in IDPA). I could go on.

Am I extremely happy with IDPA? No. Will I quit? No. I maintain my SO certification but only use it at local matches (not required but I do it anyway) because I don't have time to do anything else (big matches). I continue to SO so that our local club can have matches (and I am glad to do that). I also enjoy helping the new/newer shooters when they come out to shoot a match to get them going in the right direction.

Please note that I am very much appreciate all that Charles has done and continues to do for our local IDPA club (at PSC). We have club matches at PCS that are as good as any of the state, national or world IDPA matches I have shot. Charles and Mark are the reason these great matches happen.

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Re: New IDPA Rules

#14

Post by C-dub » Mon Nov 23, 2015 10:36 am

My club started becoming unhappy with IDPA rule changes a year or two ago when they changed the rules for performing mag changes and other things.

IIRC, they used to be able to be done from behind cover, while moving. That changed and a penalty assessed for it. It seemed like IDPA was becoming less real world like and more geared toward being able find ways to penalize competitors in order to get the scores a little further apart.
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Re: New IDPA Rules

#15

Post by Charles L. Cotton » Mon Nov 23, 2015 12:44 pm

LTUME1978 wrote:I am disappointed that so many are dropping out of IDPA or letting their SO certification lapse. I don't like all of the changes or some of the rules either but it is the best option that we have for some type of "concealed carry" sport. I have "played" USPSA a couple of times. If you want to shoot a lot and have fun, that is a good game. However, I think it has no value in "real world" application.

I have taken training classes at CSAT to get some real world training. If you want to get better prepared for a potential self defense application, work up to the Advanced Individual Tactics Class that is taught there. Paul teaches accuracy over speed. Since he spent 10 years in Delta and has have plenty of "real world applications" under his belt, I will listen to what he has to say. Paul's "zero down area" is a 6" X 13" box (plus the head) on his target. Any hits outside that box (or head if instructed to shoot at that for the drill) are a miss. He teaches reloads behind cover, no shooting on the move in the open (run across an open area as quickly as possible), etc.

I think it would be great for some of the IDPA leadership take that class then rethink their rules to improve the sport and make it more useful for concealed carry holders. I would like to see the zero down change from an 8" circle to the 6" X 13" box as Paul teaches us that the preferred shot placement is in an area between the 8" circle and the head on an IDPA target (you get a 1 point down bonus for shooting there in IDPA). I could go on.

Am I extremely happy with IDPA? No. Will I quit? No. I maintain my SO certification but only use it at local matches (not required but I do it anyway) because I don't have time to do anything else (big matches). I continue to SO so that our local club can have matches (and I am glad to do that). I also enjoy helping the new/newer shooters when they come out to shoot a match to get them going in the right direction.

Please note that I am very much appreciate all that Charles has done and continues to do for our local IDPA club (at PSC). We have club matches at PCS that are as good as any of the state, national or world IDPA matches I have shot. Charles and Mark are the reason these great matches happen.
I don't think most of the folks who dropped their SO Certification have quit shooting IDPA. Most are not going to put up with unnecessary recertification frequency and an absurdly short window of time. There's no reason for the recertification schedule IDPA HQ is now mandating and the procedure is horrible. I received an email that gave me something like 10 days to recertify online, after which I'd have to contact the area director to make arrangements to do something else. Rule changes can and should be handled by SO updates, not a formalized recertification exam. Doctors, lawyers, CPA's and many more must meet continuing education requirements, without exams and short timelines for completion. I'm also sick of the ever-expanding and changing IDPA Rule Book with unnecessary rules, some of which are directly in conflict with self-defense tactics. Yes, some are getting better but for a "tactical sport," they never should have existed in the first place.

I resigned as IDPA Match Director at PSC and Mark Stavrakis is now the MD. I'm still involved as Assist. MD and now that we're using Practiscore, my workload has been reduced to the point that I'll have time to shoot again. I'll stay involved with IDPA as long as it's popular at our Club; but something much better is in the works. (Don't ask.)

Chas.

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