No signs question
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No signs question
Good afternoon everyone, I have a rather newbie question.
There are a few places I go to that have no signs pertaining to firearms, no 30.06/30.07 or the sign reading "unlicensed possesion of a firearm is punishable by....."
If there are no signs whatsoever, can I still carry here?
Thanks in advance for the input!!!
There are a few places I go to that have no signs pertaining to firearms, no 30.06/30.07 or the sign reading "unlicensed possesion of a firearm is punishable by....."
If there are no signs whatsoever, can I still carry here?
Thanks in advance for the input!!!
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Re: No signs question
You sure can, unless the place in question is already off limits without the signs (courthouse, police station, schools, etc).
J.R.
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Re: No signs question
IANALRmartinez37 wrote:Good afternoon everyone, I have a rather newbie question.
There are a few places I go to that have no signs pertaining to firearms, no 30.06/30.07 or the sign reading "unlicensed possesion of a firearm is punishable by....."
If there are no signs whatsoever, can I still carry here?
Thanks in advance for the input!!!
Effective notice can be signs, written communication, or verbal communication.
However, places that are prohibited by law do not require 30.06 or 30.07 notice. See Texas Penal Code Title 10, Chapter 46, sections 46.03 and 46.035.
http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/D ... .htm#46.03
If there are no signs in a non-prohibited place, and you are licensed, you can carry openly or concealed unless the owner or one "with apparent authority to act for the owner provides notice to the person by oral or written communication." Exceptions and defenses apply.
See Texas Penal Code Title 7, Chapter 30, Sections 30.06 and 30.07
http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/D ... /PE.30.htm
Verbal communication can be as simple as "No guns."
Written has requirements:
(3) "Written communication" means:
(A) a card or other document on which is written language identical to the following: "Pursuant to Section 30.06, Penal Code (trespass by holder of license to carry a concealed handgun), a person licensed under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code (concealed handgun law), may not enter this property with a concealed handgun"; or
The statutes have no other requirement for the written communication other than the exact wording.
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2/19FA, 1st Cavalry Division 73-78; 56FA BDE (Pershing) 78-81
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Re: No signs question
Police stations are not off-limits.jrs_diesel wrote:You sure can, unless the place in question is already off limits without the signs (courthouse, police station, schools, etc).
GC §411.207. AUTHORITY OF PEACE OFFICER TO DISARM. (a) A peace officer who is acting in the lawful discharge of the officer’s official duties may disarm a license holder at any time the officer reasonably believes it is necessary for the protection of the license holder, officer, or another individual. The peace officer shall return the handgun to the license holder before discharging the license holder from the scene if the officer determines that the license holder is not a threat to the officer, license holder, or another individual and if the license holder has not violated any provision of this subchapter or committed any other violation that results in the arrest of the license holder.
(b) A peace officer who is acting in the lawful discharge of the officer’s official duties may temporarily disarm a license holder when a license holder enters a non-public, secure portion of a law enforcement facility, if the law enforcement agency provides a gun locker where the peace officer can secure the license holder’s handgun. The peace officer shall secure the handgun in the locker and shall return the handgun to the license holder immediately after the license holder leaves the non-public, secure portion of the law enforcement facility.
(c) A law enforcement facility shall prominently display at each entrance to a nonpublic, secure portion of the facility a sign that gives notice in both English and Spanish that, under this section, a peace officer may temporarily disarm a license holder when the license holder enters the non-public, secure portion of the facility. The sign must appear in contrasting colors with block letters at least one inch in height. The sign shall be displayed in a clearly visible and conspicuous manner.
(d) In this section:
(1) “Law enforcement facility” means a building or a portion of a building used exclusively by a law enforcement agency that employs peace officers as described by Articles 2.12(1) and (3), Code of Criminal Procedure, and support personnel to conduct the official business of the agency. The term does not include:
(A) any portion of a building not actively used exclusively to conduct the official business of the agency; or
(B) any public or private driveway, street, sidewalk, walkway, parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area.
(2) “Non-public, secure portion of a law enforcement facility” means that portion of a law enforcement facility to which the general public is denied access without express permission and to which access is granted solely to conduct the official business of the law enforcement agency.
Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence. - John Adams
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Re: No signs question
Thank you very much for clearing that up for me.
I'm always watching out for signs, and if I see a 30.06, I'll generally take my business elsewhere, unless I have no choice.
I always wondered about places with no signage, no I know
I'm always watching out for signs, and if I see a 30.06, I'll generally take my business elsewhere, unless I have no choice.
I always wondered about places with no signage, no I know
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Re: No signs question
I stand correctedPawpaw wrote:Police stations are not off limits.jrs_diesel wrote:You sure can, unless the place in question is already off limits without the signs (courthouse, police station, schools, etc).
J.R.
Re: No signs question
Technically, the public area is not off limits and they DO need a sign otherwise...jrs_diesel wrote:I stand correctedPawpaw wrote:Police stations are not off limits.jrs_diesel wrote:You sure can, unless the place in question is already off limits without the signs (courthouse, police station, schools, etc).
Sec. 411.207. AUTHORITY OF PEACE OFFICER TO DISARM.
...
(b) A peace officer who is acting in the lawful discharge of the officer's official duties may temporarily disarm a license holder when a license holder enters a nonpublic, secure portion of a law enforcement facility, if the law enforcement agency provides a gun locker where the peace officer can secure the license holder's handgun. The peace officer shall secure the handgun in the locker and shall return the handgun to the license holder immediately after the license holder leaves the nonpublic, secure portion of the law enforcement facility.
(c) A law enforcement facility shall prominently display at each entrance to a nonpublic, secure portion of the facility a sign that gives notice in both English and Spanish that, under this section, a peace officer may temporarily disarm a license holder when the license holder enters the nonpublic, secure portion of the facility. The sign must appear in contrasting colors with block letters at least one inch in height. The sign shall be displayed in a clearly visible and conspicuous manner.
...
(2) "Nonpublic, secure portion of a law enforcement facility" means that portion of a law enforcement facility to which the general public is denied access without express permission and to which access is granted solely to conduct the official business of the law enforcement agency.
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Re: No signs question
Courthouses with non-court related departments are not automatically off limits by statute either. The area where courtrooms are located and courts themselves are statutorily off-limits.
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Re: No signs question
And US Post Offices are off limits, with or without a sign.
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Re: No signs question
yup, even prohibited in the parking lot at post offices from what I saw on the sign at my local post office.n5wmk wrote:And US Post Offices are off limits, with or without a sign.
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Re: No signs question
After Jan 1, of course.oljames3 wrote:
If there are no signs in a non-prohibited place, and you are licensed, you can carry openly or concealed unless the owner or one "with apparent authority to act for the owner provides notice to the person by oral or written communication." Exceptions and defenses apply.
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Re: No signs question
The federal law banning post office carry requires posting a 18 USC 926 sign, so if they don't then you could technically carry in the post office without being prosecuted. The parking lot carry ban is questionable, especially without a sign, and the penalty is the equivalent to speeding ticket in DC.Rmartinez37 wrote:yup, even prohibited in the parking lot at post offices from what I saw on the sign at my local post office.n5wmk wrote:And US Post Offices are off limits, with or without a sign.
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Re: No signs question
Which is exactly why I posted GC §411.207 in it's entirety and highlighted the relevant sections.casp625 wrote:Technically, the public area is not off limits and they DO need a sign otherwise...jrs_diesel wrote:I stand correctedPawpaw wrote:Police stations are not off limits.jrs_diesel wrote:You sure can, unless the place in question is already off limits without the signs (courthouse, police station, schools, etc).
Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence. - John Adams
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Re: No signs question
My post office has no signs up, I live in the Hill Country. I asked once about a year ago and was told , We don't care....
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Re: No signs question
viking1000 wrote:My post office has no signs up, I live in the Hill Country. I asked once about a year ago and was told , We don't care....
I think that may only be a defense to prosecution. However, it's probably a slim chance of any finding out.
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