Experience dealing with LEOs during events etc?

The "What Works, What Doesn't," "Recommendations & Experiences"

Moderators: carlson1, Crossfire

User avatar

C-dub
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 4
Posts: 12536
Joined: Sat May 16, 2009 7:18 pm
Location: DFW

Re: Experience dealing with LEOs during events etc?

#31

Post by C-dub » Wed Nov 21, 2018 11:53 am

TexanVeteran wrote:
Wed Nov 21, 2018 6:52 am
C-dub wrote:
Wed Nov 21, 2018 12:01 am
TexanVeteran wrote:
Tue Nov 20, 2018 11:27 pm
montgomery wrote:
Mon Oct 15, 2018 3:29 pm
Why would you voluntarily show your CCW / LTC to a volunteer gate security person when it is not required to do so. Might as well open carry at that point. You are not required to disclose unless at a traffic stop with at Texas peace officer or upon direct request by a Texas peace officer. Otherwise, don't ask, don't tell.
You do not have to disclose at a traffic stop in Texas. The only thing you have to do is produce your carry permit, if requested, when open carrying.
This is so wrong!
Actually, it's not.

1. I just had my LTC class.
2. I did my research
3. Texas is not a disclosure state. It is a courtesy, yes, but not legally required at a traffic stop.
4. If you are open carrying, LEO's do have the right to ask you to show your LTC, and you must.

That is the law. Look it up.
I must also appologize for my brief rebuttal last night.
I was on my break at work last night and did not have time to find the relevant statute and copy it with my phone.

The requirement is still there, but you may have discovered that the penalty has been removed.
I am not and have never been a LEO. My avatar is in honor of my friend, Dallas Police Sargent Michael Smith, who was murdered along with four other officers in Dallas on 7.7.2016.
NRA Patriot-Endowment Lifetime Member---------------------------------------------Si vis pacem, para bellum.................................................Patriot Guard Rider


WTR
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 3
Posts: 1787
Joined: Mon Nov 16, 2015 10:41 pm

Re: Experience dealing with LEOs during events etc?

#32

Post by WTR » Wed Nov 21, 2018 11:59 am

I don’t see a requirement to voluntarily show your LTC at a traffic stop..... only when “demanded” by the Officer. I have always had my documents ready to present to an Officer when He/She has approached my window. Therefore , no “ demand “ has ever been given.


MojaveMan
Junior Member
Posts in topic: 2
Posts: 7
Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2015 10:49 am

Re: Experience dealing with LEOs during events etc?

#33

Post by MojaveMan » Wed Nov 21, 2018 1:26 pm

TexanVeteran wrote:
Wed Nov 21, 2018 6:52 am
C-dub wrote:
Wed Nov 21, 2018 12:01 am
TexanVeteran wrote:
Tue Nov 20, 2018 11:27 pm
montgomery wrote:
Mon Oct 15, 2018 3:29 pm
Why would you voluntarily show your CCW / LTC to a volunteer gate security person when it is not required to do so. Might as well open carry at that point. You are not required to disclose unless at a traffic stop with at Texas peace officer or upon direct request by a Texas peace officer. Otherwise, don't ask, don't tell.
You do not have to disclose at a traffic stop in Texas. The only thing you have to do is produce your carry permit, if requested, when open carrying.
This is so wrong!
Actually, it's not.

1. I just had my LTC class.
2. I did my research
3. Texas is not a disclosure state. It is a courtesy, yes, but not legally required at a traffic stop.
4. If you are open carrying, LEO's do have the right to ask you to show your LTC, and you must.

That is the law. Look it up.
Actually, It is. I did look it up. I hope your LTC class didn't give you any misinformation regarding the law.
Texas Government Code Chapter 411.205, here:
https://statutes.capitol.texas.gov/Docs ... GV.411.htm

Sec. 411.205. REQUIREMENT TO DISPLAY LICENSE. If a license holder is carrying a handgun on or about the license holder's person when a magistrate or a peace officer demands that the license holder display identification, the license holder shall display both the license holder's driver's license or identification certificate issued by the department and the license holder's handgun license.

Now, I have not been pulled over very often, but every single time I have, I have been asked to identify myself.


TexanVeteran
Junior Member
Posts in topic: 8
Posts: 37
Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2018 8:41 pm

Re: Experience dealing with LEOs during events etc?

#34

Post by TexanVeteran » Wed Nov 21, 2018 1:31 pm

Maybe you should read my latest reply before attacking me.


MojaveMan
Junior Member
Posts in topic: 2
Posts: 7
Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2015 10:49 am

Re: Experience dealing with LEOs during events etc?

#35

Post by MojaveMan » Wed Nov 21, 2018 1:34 pm

TexanVeteran wrote:
Wed Nov 21, 2018 1:31 pm
Maybe you should read my latest reply before attacking me.
Hoping your LTC class didn't give you any bad advice is not an attack.
Neither is providing an actual link to the relevant law, and a quote to help provide specifics to others that might not be familiar with the issue.


TexanVeteran
Junior Member
Posts in topic: 8
Posts: 37
Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2018 8:41 pm

Re: Experience dealing with LEOs during events etc?

#36

Post by TexanVeteran » Wed Nov 21, 2018 1:38 pm

TexanVeteran wrote:
Wed Nov 21, 2018 9:16 am
Papa_Tiger wrote:
Wed Nov 21, 2018 8:33 am
TexanVeteran wrote:
Wed Nov 21, 2018 6:52 am
Actually, it's not.

1. I just had my LTC class.
2. I did my research
3. Texas is not a disclosure state. It is a courtesy, yes, but not legally required at a traffic stop.
4. If you are open carrying, LEO's do have the right to ask you to show your LTC, and you must.

That is the law. Look it up.
If you have "done your research", please quote the relevant statutes that you used to come to your conclusions.

There are many here, including at least one person who has helped craft the LTC laws who would disagree with you about your statements.
My apologies; my research was apparently not deep enough. Y'all, my friends, are/were correct. The most recent (a few minutes ago) research I have done, says the law states you must (while carrying) show your LTC and drivers license when asked for identification. I sincerely apologize for my misinformation, and I will NOT let that happen again. Thank all of you for making me aware of this.
What does the last part of that say y'all? Gimme a break!

User avatar

Flightmare
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 1
Posts: 2263
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2016 7:00 pm
Location: Plano, TX

Re: Experience dealing with LEOs during events etc?

#37

Post by Flightmare » Wed Nov 21, 2018 1:49 pm

TexasVeteran: Welcome to the forums. I've learned more from the people on this site regarding state and federal laws regarding carry and self defense than I did in my class. It's a wonderful and invaluable resource.

In addition, I've met several members from this forum in person. Both at the NRA meeting in Dallas back in May this year, and at breakfasts we have in the DFW area and Houston area. If you're in the area of either of these and able to attend, I would encourage you to join us.

As for people correcting you after you have already posted a correction; some people only read the first unread post in a thread and then jump to the end. It's not the best thing to do, but that is more of a reflection on them, not you. Try not to take it personally.

The goal here is to make sure that we keep things factually accurate (i.e. citing specific laws) so that we are all better educated. With all of the laws on the books (firearms related and not), it's no surprise that many believe the typical LTC (especially the regulars here) are usually more versed in carry law than the typical LEO. It's no ding on LEO, just that there are so many laws that they have to keep track of, and the laws change every couple years (at least in Texas).

Once again, welcome to the forum and hopefully we get to see you around! :tiphat:
Deplorable lunatic since 2016


rotor
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 3
Posts: 3208
Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2012 11:26 pm

Re: Experience dealing with LEOs during events etc?

#38

Post by rotor » Wed Nov 21, 2018 3:26 pm

TexanVeteran wrote:
Wed Nov 21, 2018 6:52 am
4. If you are open carrying, LEO's do have the right to ask you to show your LTC, and you must.

That is the law. Look it up.
I know you have posted corrections but do you still think 4. is correct? I do not believe it is correct. Just because you open carry does not mean LEO can stop and ID you.


Abraham
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 1
Posts: 8399
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2007 8:43 am

Re: Experience dealing with LEOs during events etc?

#39

Post by Abraham » Wed Nov 21, 2018 5:15 pm

I agree with Rotor.

Unless with good reason (I won't get into technical legal stuff) OCing isn't enough for LEO's to demand to see your papers...

If they do, some legal stuff may occur...not to the LEO's good.

User avatar

C-dub
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 4
Posts: 12536
Joined: Sat May 16, 2009 7:18 pm
Location: DFW

Re: Experience dealing with LEOs during events etc?

#40

Post by C-dub » Wed Nov 21, 2018 6:42 pm

WTR wrote:
Wed Nov 21, 2018 11:59 am
I don’t see a requirement to voluntarily show your LTC at a traffic stop..... only when “demanded” by the Officer. I have always had my documents ready to present to an Officer when He/She has approached my window. Therefore , no “ demand “ has ever been given.
Fair observation. However, are you aware of anyone that has been stopped for violating some traffic infraction where the LEO did not request/demand ID?
I am not and have never been a LEO. My avatar is in honor of my friend, Dallas Police Sargent Michael Smith, who was murdered along with four other officers in Dallas on 7.7.2016.
NRA Patriot-Endowment Lifetime Member---------------------------------------------Si vis pacem, para bellum.................................................Patriot Guard Rider


TexanVeteran
Junior Member
Posts in topic: 8
Posts: 37
Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2018 8:41 pm

Re: Experience dealing with LEOs during events etc?

#41

Post by TexanVeteran » Thu Nov 22, 2018 11:23 am

rotor wrote:
Wed Nov 21, 2018 3:26 pm
TexanVeteran wrote:
Wed Nov 21, 2018 6:52 am
4. If you are open carrying, LEO's do have the right to ask you to show your LTC, and you must.

That is the law. Look it up.
I know you have posted corrections but do you still think 4. is correct? I do not believe it is correct. Just because you open carry does not mean LEO can stop and ID you.
Penal code 46.035


rotor
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 3
Posts: 3208
Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2012 11:26 pm

Re: Experience dealing with LEOs during events etc?

#42

Post by rotor » Thu Nov 22, 2018 12:30 pm

TexanVeteran wrote:
Thu Nov 22, 2018 11:23 am
rotor wrote:
Wed Nov 21, 2018 3:26 pm
TexanVeteran wrote:
Wed Nov 21, 2018 6:52 am
4. If you are open carrying, LEO's do have the right to ask you to show your LTC, and you must.

That is the law. Look it up.
I know you have posted corrections but do you still think 4. is correct? I do not believe it is correct. Just because you open carry does not mean LEO can stop and ID you.
Penal code 46.035
What section says a LEO can ask for your LTC if open carrying? I think you need some additional training. Have you ever heard of Terry stop?


TexanVeteran
Junior Member
Posts in topic: 8
Posts: 37
Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2018 8:41 pm

Re: Experience dealing with LEOs during events etc?

#43

Post by TexanVeteran » Thu Nov 22, 2018 12:59 pm

rotor wrote:
Thu Nov 22, 2018 12:30 pm
TexanVeteran wrote:
Thu Nov 22, 2018 11:23 am
rotor wrote:
Wed Nov 21, 2018 3:26 pm
TexanVeteran wrote:
Wed Nov 21, 2018 6:52 am
4. If you are open carrying, LEO's do have the right to ask you to show your LTC, and you must.

That is the law. Look it up.
I know you have posted corrections but do you still think 4. is correct? I do not believe it is correct. Just because you open carry does not mean LEO can stop and ID you.
Penal code 46.035
What section says a LEO can ask for your LTC if open carrying? I think you need some additional training. Have you ever heard of Terry stop?
I hate the internet. I have finally found the actual Texas statute. It doesn't mention OC authorized requests by LEO at all. Thank you for pointing this out. The site I had used was guns to carry dot com. They cited the penal code that I stated. After your reply, I finally found the whole thing, and read the whole code. No mention either way. So, in re-response to your original question, no I do not think my original number for is correct.


rotor
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 3
Posts: 3208
Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2012 11:26 pm

Re: Experience dealing with LEOs during events etc?

#44

Post by rotor » Thu Nov 22, 2018 1:42 pm

TexanVeteran wrote:
Thu Nov 22, 2018 12:59 pm
rotor wrote:
Thu Nov 22, 2018 12:30 pm
TexanVeteran wrote:
Thu Nov 22, 2018 11:23 am
rotor wrote:
Wed Nov 21, 2018 3:26 pm
TexanVeteran wrote:
Wed Nov 21, 2018 6:52 am
4. If you are open carrying, LEO's do have the right to ask you to show your LTC, and you must.

That is the law. Look it up.
I know you have posted corrections but do you still think 4. is correct? I do not believe it is correct. Just because you open carry does not mean LEO can stop and ID you.
Penal code 46.035
What section says a LEO can ask for your LTC if open carrying? I think you need some additional training. Have you ever heard of Terry stop?
I hate the internet. I have finally found the actual Texas statute. It doesn't mention OC authorized requests by LEO at all. Thank you for pointing this out. The site I had used was guns to carry dot com. They cited the penal code that I stated. After your reply, I finally found the whole thing, and read the whole code. No mention either way. So, in re-response to your original question, no I do not think my original number for is correct.
There is no legal requirement for a citizen to even show ID to a LEO upon request unless there is some suspicion of illegality such as speeding. If you walk down the street open carrying, minding your own business, a LEO is NOT legally allowed to ask for your LTC, doesn't mean it won't happen though as if you voluntarily show it that's up to you.


TexanVeteran
Junior Member
Posts in topic: 8
Posts: 37
Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2018 8:41 pm

Re: Experience dealing with LEOs during events etc?

#45

Post by TexanVeteran » Thu Nov 22, 2018 3:03 pm

In addition, I've met several members from this forum in person. Both at the NRA meeting in Dallas back in May this year, and at breakfasts we have in the DFW area and Houston area. If you're in the area of either of these and able to attend, I would encourage you to join us.
I live in Houston and go to Dallas on a semi regular basis. Where on this forum do I found out about such events?

Post Reply

Return to “New to CHL?”