Pit Bull Attack...divine intervention

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1911 Raptor
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Re: Pit Bull Attack...divine intervention

#46

Post by 1911 Raptor » Sat Oct 19, 2019 7:48 am

Hoodasnacks wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 12:53 pm
chasfm11 wrote:
Thu Oct 17, 2019 2:56 pm
Hoodasnacks wrote:
Thu Oct 17, 2019 2:00 pm

You are actually both wrong--German Shepherd bite strength 238 PSI; American Pit Bull 235 PSI (so basically the same). American temperament society test pass rate: German Shepard 85.3%; American Pit Bull 87.4%. Pits actually score higher than golden retrievers (85.6%) and collies (80.8%).

Sorry--I'm a nerd on these types of things. Pitt Bulls are the AR-15 of Dogs. They are not significantly more dangerous than others just like guns--but are still dangerous. People also often see a scary dog and often incorrectly identify it as a pit (https://www.earth.com/news/pit-bull-bite-statistics/ "A study of shelter staff and veterinarians found that the participants over-identified dogs as pit bulls. Only 25 pit bull-type breeds were used in the study, yet participants labeled 62 dogs as pit bulls. Additionally, victims may be more likely to report dog bites from breeds they deem dangerous over less intimidating breeds.") Not saying that you are doing this at all--just pointing out that the stats on this subject are often wrong/over-inflated. There are lots of stats/studies on the issue. E.g. boxers are often mistaken for pits.
I've got to be honest. I don't care. I don't accept the equation that a pit bull is like an AR-15. I don't worry about the statistics. My personal experience is that pit bulls are more often owned by people who shouldn't have them and are unwilling to control them than any other breed. I'm not sure what it is that draws these types of people to these dogs. It is not the dogs themselves (like it is not the guns themselves) but the "users" I have made it a point in the past to ignore other people and their dogs. I frankly don't care what they do with their animals - as long as it doesn't affect me. Now, this breed is affecting me and my family. I'm no longer neutral on them. That is just the way that it is going to be, right or wrong. Call me what you will.
I don't blame you at all for feeling that way and I would probably feel that way too...it just makes me sad to see the statement of a "breed" affecting you, its a bad dog owned by a bad owner (just like an AR15). Their reputation is what attracts bad owners, and the reputation would likely be false but for the bad owners. It is a sad circle.

I will call you a responsible and diligent husband/father/pet owner for being cautious...and that is all.
I don’t buy this argument at all. An inanimate object can’t function on its own where a pit bull or any other dog for that matter has a brain and can function all on its own.

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Re: Pit Bull Attack...divine intervention

#47

Post by RPBrown » Sat Oct 19, 2019 9:51 am

I have read all of the posts here and now I have to weigh in. We own a pit bull. Second one we have owned. We lost the first one to cancer last year after 13 years. The one we have now was originally owned by one of those that apparently wanted a mean dog. He was taken away from this guy at the age of 2 months, sat in a shelter until almost 4 months old until the case made its way through the court system and ownership finally released to the shelter. Now when I say he was abuse trained, I am talking broken ribs, leg, and foot. He was captured on video abusing the pup. The shelter was afraid to list him on the website because they were afraid he would send friends to adopt him and give him back so the director called us.
We also have a rescued golden retriever, German Shepard, and a 30 pound put together rescue.
Now, keep in mind, my dogs are house/back yard animals. They don’t leave our confines unless on a leash (nor should any dog).
They all go to the groomers (daughter owns the shop) and all get along real good with the other dogs there including our neighbors dog. I say that last part because they all go after the neighbors did through the fence. But they are protecting their yard.
I have spelled all of this out to make the following points, (1) none are vicious or dangerous unless protecting what is theirs (2) the most aggressive of the 4 is the littlest one (3) they will all protect my wife if needed but she can call them all down.
Any dog can be made vicious and/or dangerous and any dog can be trained to be good natured.

A couple of years ago there was a small pack of homeless “pit bulls” as described by witnesses that was terrorizing our neighborhood. The had attacked a couple of dogs and a person. They were all caught, news crews, and animal control people that were interviewed called them all pit bulls. The the showed the picture of these dogs. 1 was border collie, 1 was Shephard mix, and 2 were labs. Not a pit bull in the mix
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Re: Pit Bull Attack...divine intervention

#48

Post by RPBrown » Sat Oct 19, 2019 9:51 am

I have read all of the posts here and now I have to weigh in. We own a pit bull. Second one we have owned. We lost the first one to cancer last year after 13 years. The one we have now was originally owned by one of those that apparently wanted a mean dog. He was taken away from this guy at the age of 2 months, sat in a shelter until almost 4 months old until the case made its way through the court system and ownership finally released to the shelter. Now when I say he was abuse trained, I am talking broken ribs, leg, and foot. He was captured on video abusing the pup. The shelter was afraid to list him on the website because they were afraid he would send friends to adopt him and give him back so the director called us.
We also have a rescued golden retriever, German Shepard, and a 30 pound put together rescue.
Now, keep in mind, my dogs are house/back yard animals. They don’t leave our confines unless on a leash (nor should any dog).
They all go to the groomers (daughter owns the shop) and all get along real good with the other dogs there including our neighbors dog. I say that last part because they all go after the neighbors did through the fence. But they are protecting their yard.
I have spelled all of this out to make the following points, (1) none are vicious or dangerous unless protecting what is theirs (2) the most aggressive of the 4 is the littlest one (3) they will all protect my wife if needed but she can call them all down.
Any dog can be made vicious and/or dangerous and any dog can be trained to be good natured.

A couple of years ago there was a small pack of homeless “pit bulls” as described by witnesses that was terrorizing our neighborhood. The had attacked a couple of dogs and a person. They were all caught, news crews, and animal control people that were interviewed called them all pit bulls. The the showed the picture of these dogs. 1 was border collie, 1 was Shephard mix, and 2 were labs. Not a pit bull in the mix
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Re: Pit Bull Attack...divine intervention

#49

Post by cirus » Sat Oct 19, 2019 11:29 am

I'm glad I live in the country. A dog from down the road occasionally pays a visit but is just prowling like most do that are allowed to roam. There have been a few over the years that came on my property with a bad attitude. I changed it for them. :fire


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Re: Pit Bull Attack...divine intervention

#50

Post by chasfm11 » Sat Oct 19, 2019 9:29 pm

RPBrown wrote:
Sat Oct 19, 2019 9:51 am
I have read all of the posts here and now I have to weigh in. We own a pit bull. Second one we have owned. We lost the first one to cancer last year after 13 years. The one we have now was originally owned by one of those that apparently wanted a mean dog. He was taken away from this guy at the age of 2 months, sat in a shelter until almost 4 months old until the case made its way through the court system and ownership finally released to the shelter. Now when I say he was abuse trained, I am talking broken ribs, leg, and foot. He was captured on video abusing the pup. The shelter was afraid to list him on the website because they were afraid he would send friends to adopt him and give him back so the director called us.
We also have a rescued golden retriever, German Shepard, and a 30 pound put together rescue.
Now, keep in mind, my dogs are house/back yard animals. They don’t leave our confines unless on a leash (nor should any dog).
They all go to the groomers (daughter owns the shop) and all get along real good with the other dogs there including our neighbors dog. I say that last part because they all go after the neighbors did through the fence. But they are protecting their yard.
I have spelled all of this out to make the following points, (1) none are vicious or dangerous unless protecting what is theirs (2) the most aggressive of the 4 is the littlest one (3) they will all protect my wife if needed but she can call them all down.
Any dog can be made vicious and/or dangerous and any dog can be trained to be good natured.

A couple of years ago there was a small pack of homeless “pit bulls” as described by witnesses that was terrorizing our neighborhood. The had attacked a couple of dogs and a person. They were all caught, news crews, and animal control people that were interviewed called them all pit bulls. The the showed the picture of these dogs. 1 was border collie, 1 was Shephard mix, and 2 were labs. Not a pit bull in the mix
I'm 100% with you on:
1. Pit bulls get a bad rap because other breeds are mis-identified as pits when bad things happen. The lazy reporting is the same mentality as some of sloppiness on "assault weapons."
2. Many dogs are deliberately made v9sious by owner actions either provoking them or failing to deal with bad behaviors when they start. We had a gentle lab mix next door to us in our first house. Its owner called it Rommel and tried his best to turn it into some sort of attack dog. It was the sweetest thing and all it really want to do was have you play tug of war with it when it brought back a stick that you threw for it to retrieve.
3. There are pit bull owners like you that are responsible and attend to their animals properly. You might even be the majority of pit owners.
4. Some small breeds are more viscous than pit bulls. In that context, they will lash out and bite at others. Chihuahuas are one that comes to mind. The difference it that they lack the capability of killing the objects of their attacks the way that pits can.

But how do you explain:
1. My sister's dog was attacked when the owner took her eye off of her pit bull and it jumped a fence that it had never been inside before. The dog that it attacked never barks or shows any aggressive behavior toward anything so it wasn't provoking the pit. There can be no claim of turf protection.
2. My dog was attacked on a public street. The owners just moved here from CA and claimed that their dog had never been in front of the house before. Again, it is hard to accept turf protection considering the distance, location and history. My dog can be mouthy but she had not been on this walk so there was no provocation.
3. The dog that attacked my sister's dog got off being a dangerous dog because of the owner's photos showing it with children. The dog that attacked my dog lives with a girl toddler. It is my opinion that the behavior of pits around children is not an indicator of their behavior around anything that they consider to be prey. That is why the owner of my dog's attacker could rightly claim that his dog never had behaved like that before. I would counter that it was young enough to have never gotten the opportunity before and that if given a similar opportunity again would behave in the same way repeatedly. The day after the attack, I observed that dog in the back yard behind a fence in a barking frenzy over a large old Irish setter walking down the street where the attack against my dog occurred. An animal that large is a stretch to be considered prey. I contend that young males in many breeds especially if they are not neutered are by far the greatest aggressors and that in pits, there is a greater percentage in that category. This is why I don't accept the AR-15 equation with pit bills. My AR is inanimate as some other poster suggested and no matter how many times it is left unattended, is not going to seek an opportunity to attack. It seems clear to me at that least some pit bills are always attentive for such an opportunity.
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Re: Pit Bull Attack...divine intervention

#51

Post by C-dub » Sat Oct 19, 2019 9:43 pm

Any dog CAN be perfectly fine with humans and be dog aggressive and for various reasons. If an animal control person, judge, or whomever is making this evaluation and decision regarding any dog doesn't know or realize or care about this then that's a big problem. Many breeds are known to be very family oriented and protective of their family, while being extremely wary of outsiders.

To evaluate this dog I would set up various tests that put those different circumstances in play and see how it reacts. I still cannot believe they let that dog return to its own home.
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Re: Pit Bull Attack...divine intervention

#52

Post by RPBrown » Sat Oct 19, 2019 10:06 pm

chasfm11 wrote:
Sat Oct 19, 2019 9:29 pm
RPBrown wrote:
Sat Oct 19, 2019 9:51 am
I have read all of the posts here and now I have to weigh in. We own a pit bull. Second one we have owned. We lost the first one to cancer last year after 13 years. The one we have now was originally owned by one of those that apparently wanted a mean dog. He was taken away from this guy at the age of 2 months, sat in a shelter until almost 4 months old until the case made its way through the court system and ownership finally released to the shelter. Now when I say he was abuse trained, I am talking broken ribs, leg, and foot. He was captured on video abusing the pup. The shelter was afraid to list him on the website because they were afraid he would send friends to adopt him and give him back so the director called us.
We also have a rescued golden retriever, German Shepard, and a 30 pound put together rescue.
Now, keep in mind, my dogs are house/back yard animals. They don’t leave our confines unless on a leash (nor should any dog).
They all go to the groomers (daughter owns the shop) and all get along real good with the other dogs there including our neighbors dog. I say that last part because they all go after the neighbors did through the fence. But they are protecting their yard.
I have spelled all of this out to make the following points, (1) none are vicious or dangerous unless protecting what is theirs (2) the most aggressive of the 4 is the littlest one (3) they will all protect my wife if needed but she can call them all down.
Any dog can be made vicious and/or dangerous and any dog can be trained to be good natured.

A couple of years ago there was a small pack of homeless “pit bulls” as described by witnesses that was terrorizing our neighborhood. The had attacked a couple of dogs and a person. They were all caught, news crews, and animal control people that were interviewed called them all pit bulls. The the showed the picture of these dogs. 1 was border collie, 1 was Shephard mix, and 2 were labs. Not a pit bull in the mix
I'm 100% with you on:
1. Pit bulls get a bad rap because other breeds are mis-identified as pits when bad things happen. The lazy reporting is the same mentality as some of sloppiness on "assault weapons."
2. Many dogs are deliberately made v9sious by owner actions either provoking them or failing to deal with bad behaviors when they start. We had a gentle lab mix next door to us in our first house. Its owner called it Rommel and tried his best to turn it into some sort of attack dog. It was the sweetest thing and all it really want to do was have you play tug of war with it when it brought back a stick that you threw for it to retrieve.
3. There are pit bull owners like you that are responsible and attend to their animals properly. You might even be the majority of pit owners.
4. Some small breeds are more viscous than pit bulls. In that context, they will lash out and bite at others. Chihuahuas are one that comes to mind. The difference it that they lack the capability of killing the objects of their attacks the way that pits can.

But how do you explain:
1. My sister's dog was attacked when the owner took her eye off of her pit bull and it jumped a fence that it had never been inside before. The dog that it attacked never barks or shows any aggressive behavior toward anything so it wasn't provoking the pit. There can be no claim of turf protection.
2. My dog was attacked on a public street. The owners just moved here from CA and claimed that their dog had never been in front of the house before. Again, it is hard to accept turf protection considering the distance, location and history. My dog can be mouthy but she had not been on this walk so there was no provocation.
3. The dog that attacked my sister's dog got off being a dangerous dog because of the owner's photos showing it with children. The dog that attacked my dog lives with a girl toddler. It is my opinion that the behavior of pits around children is not an indicator of their behavior around anything that they consider to be prey. That is why the owner of my dog's attacker could rightly claim that his dog never had behaved like that before. I would counter that it was young enough to have never gotten the opportunity before and that if given a similar opportunity again would behave in the same way repeatedly. The day after the attack, I observed that dog in the back yard behind a fence in a barking frenzy over a large old Irish setter walking down the street where the attack against my dog occurred. An animal that large is a stretch to be considered prey. I contend that young males in many breeds especially if they are not neutered are by far the greatest aggressors and that in pits, there is a greater percentage in that category. This is why I don't accept the AR-15 equation with pit bills. My AR is inanimate as some other poster suggested and no matter how many times it is left unattended, is not going to seek an opportunity to attack. It seems clear to me at that least some pit bills are always attentive for such an opportunity.
In answer to your questions, 1 & 2 are either irresponsible owners or the dog was scared being in new surroundings or both. As for 3, I can’t really answer without seeing/ knowing the dog but still say irresponsible owners most likely.
It’s not just pit bulls. Any dog can have aggressive nature’s. I’ve been in the ac business for 47 years and have been bitten twice, both times by chihuahuas
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Re: Pit Bull Attack...divine intervention

#53

Post by narcissist » Sun Oct 20, 2019 12:39 am

Own a grey wolf hybrid, never had no trouble out of it besides being dominant over all my other dogs. It's how you train them imo, but could be wrong :confused5
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Re: Pit Bull Attack...divine intervention

#54

Post by Hoodasnacks » Tue Oct 22, 2019 1:14 pm

[/quote]

... I’ve been in the ac business for 47 years and have been bitten twice, both times by chihuahuas
[/quote]

I think we can all agree that Chihuahuas are the worst. :lol:


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Re: Pit Bull Attack...divine intervention

#55

Post by texas yankee » Wed Oct 23, 2019 9:46 am

I ride a recumbent trike, it's low to the ground compared to a traditional upright bike, and I've been chased and menaced up close by loose dogs several times - pepper spray used twice, gun drawn once. Knowing what I know now, I wouldn't hesitate to shoot, sooner versus later - I always carry when I am riding.

"The animal control person pretty much told me that I have no rights in the matter." - the animal control person isn't a lawyer - nuff said on that.

"Animal Services is handling this. She said that she will evaluate the dog for excessive aggressiveness but indicated that she was unlikely to find that." - get your local elected officials involved, as well as whoever is running the animal services department, and perhaps the City \ County attorney, and ask them to monitor the case, because you are concerned that the officer who responded is pre-disposed to favor the animal.

"When this is settled, I plan to schedule an appointment with the head of the animal services unit to discuss the Health and Safety wording." - waste of time - the head of animal services isn't an attorney either, and given that they love animals, they'll usually take the side of the animal, unless you motivate them to see the situation differently.
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Re: Pit Bull Attack...divine intervention

#56

Post by striker55 » Wed Oct 23, 2019 11:46 am

Hoodasnacks wrote:
Tue Oct 22, 2019 1:14 pm
... I’ve been in the ac business for 47 years and have been bitten twice, both times by chihuahuas
[/quote]

I think we can all agree that Chihuahuas are the worst. :lol:
[/quote]

Let's see get bit by a Chihuahua or a Pitbull, I'll choose a Chihuahua.

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Re: Pit Bull Attack...divine intervention

#57

Post by The Annoyed Man » Mon Nov 11, 2019 3:01 pm

This is the story if my friend's sister, who spent two months in the hospital while recovering from being mauled by two pit bulls belonging to her son. And these dogs knew her, she had played with them before, as had her grandkids: http://blog.memorialhermann.org/jeannie ... le-attack/.

My previous dog was a half pit rescue dog, and she was crazy. She was fine with me and my immediate family, but in all the years we had her, she only ever liked one other person....a friend of ours from church. And other dogs? Forget it. She’d try to kill 'em if she could.

Here’s the deal. I don’t think Pitbulls should be banned, or that the owners should be licensed, or anything like that. But what I DO think is that, if you own a Pitbull, even one that wouldn’t hurt a fly, you have a unique responsibility to be honest about recognizing the potential for mayhem that’s locked up inside your sweetums puppy. Pits are like Ferdinand the Bull. Solid, peace-loving, cuddle bugs. But if they go off the rails, they are uniquely endowed for attacking and destroying whatever target has the misfortune to find itself in the dog's crosshairs.

And that target as often as not didn’t do anything to deserve what happened to them. My friend's sister was watching her grandkids. She knew the dogs, and they knew her. She had just been playing with them not long before the attack. If I were her son, I’d have had the dogs destroyed, but I don’t know what actually happened to them. One of the bloggers I follow, John Mosby of the Mountain Guerrilla blog, wrote recently that if his dog (a mastiff) ever bit a family member, even once, he’d take it outside and shoot it. Recently, his dog sort of accidentally bit a friend of his while they were group roughhousing out front of his house. He asked the friend if he wanted John to put the dog down. The friend said no, that he wasn’t trying to bite him....the friend's arm just got in the way of the chompers while playing. So he didn’t shoot the dog, but he was fully ready to if necessary.

I love our dogs with all my heart—a 55 lb boxer/lab mix, and a 107 lb boxer—but they’re not my children. They’re pets....just a step up from livestock. I would do all in my power to protect them and take good care of them. But if they did to one of my family members what my friend's nephew's dogs did to her sister, they wouldn’t live to see sundown.

If you’re going to own a Pitbull, that’s fine. But you also better be prepared to do what you have to do IF the dog ever goes rogue.
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Re: Pit Bull Attack...divine intervention

#58

Post by flechero » Mon Nov 11, 2019 3:31 pm

I know more than one person who had pits that were raised as family from the day they were weaned... A friend had raised pits his whole life, and was a staunch defender of the breed... until the day he almost lost his son. This pit was 9-10 at the time and turned on the 6year old kid who was watching tv nearby, completely unprovoked and right on in front of my friend. Dad and boy both went to the hospital to be sewn up. This was another one of those "sweet family dogs who wouldn't hurt a fly" and had been with the family since it was weaned.

Sad as it is, there are lots of stories like that. Sure, pits often get a bad rap but like most stereotypes, there is always a vein of truth at the root of it.

I trust my dogs (none are pits)with me... I don't trust them unconditionally with others- especially children.

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Re: Pit Bull Attack...divine intervention

#59

Post by 03Lightningrocks » Mon Nov 11, 2019 6:52 pm

flechero wrote:
Mon Nov 11, 2019 3:31 pm
I know more than one person who had pits that were raised as family from the day they were weaned... A friend had raised pits his whole life, and was a staunch defender of the breed... until the day he almost lost his son. This pit was 9-10 at the time and turned on the 6year old kid who was watching tv nearby, completely unprovoked and right on in front of my friend. Dad and boy both went to the hospital to be sewn up. This was another one of those "sweet family dogs who wouldn't hurt a fly" and had been with the family since it was weaned.

Sad as it is, there are lots of stories like that. Sure, pits often get a bad rap but like most stereotypes, there is always a vein of truth at the root of it.

I trust my dogs (none are pits)with me... I don't trust them unconditionally with others- especially children.
I am exactly the same way. I have a 135 pound lab/rotty mix. Got him as a puppy at 8 weeks old. The dog is sweet as can be but I never leave him alone with my 4 year old grand daughter. He has not been raised around kids and I just don't know that he wouldn't bite or attack her. It is really for his well being because like TAM, i would shoot him myself if he ever attacked any of my grand kids. Or anyone elses for that matter.

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Re: Pit Bull Attack...divine intervention

#60

Post by OldCurlyWolf » Mon Nov 11, 2019 7:39 pm

The Annoyed Man wrote:
Mon Nov 11, 2019 3:01 pm
This is the story if my friend's sister, who spent two months in the hospital while recovering from being mauled by two pit bulls belonging to her son. And these dogs knew her, she had played with them before, as had her grandkids: http://blog.memorialhermann.org/jeannie ... le-attack/.

My previous dog was a half pit rescue dog, and she was crazy. She was fine with me and my immediate family, but in all the years we had her, she only ever liked one other person....a friend of ours from church. And other dogs? Forget it. She’d try to kill 'em if she could.

Here’s the deal. I don’t think Pitbulls should be banned, or that the owners should be licensed, or anything like that. But what I DO think is that, if you own a Pitbull, even one that wouldn’t hurt a fly, you have a unique responsibility to be honest about recognizing the potential for mayhem that’s locked up inside your sweetums puppy. Pits are like Ferdinand the Bull. Solid, peace-loving, cuddle bugs. But if they go off the rails, they are uniquely endowed for attacking and destroying whatever target has the misfortune to find itself in the dog's crosshairs.

And that target as often as not didn’t do anything to deserve what happened to them. My friend's sister was watching her grandkids. She knew the dogs, and they knew her. She had just been playing with them not long before the attack. If I were her son, I’d have had the dogs destroyed, but I don’t know what actually happened to them. One of the bloggers I follow, John Mosby of the Mountain Guerrilla blog, wrote recently that if his dog (a mastiff) ever bit a family member, even once, he’d take it outside and shoot it. Recently, his dog sort of accidentally bit a friend of his while they were group roughhousing out front of his house. He asked the friend if he wanted John to put the dog down. The friend said no, that he wasn’t trying to bite him....the friend's arm just got in the way of the chompers while playing. So he didn’t shoot the dog, but he was fully ready to if necessary.

I love our dogs with all my heart—a 55 lb boxer/lab mix, and a 107 lb boxer—but they’re not my children. They’re pets....just a step up from livestock. I would do all in my power to protect them and take good care of them. But if they did to one of my family members what my friend's nephew's dogs did to her sister, they wouldn’t live to see sundown.

If you’re going to own a Pitbull, that’s fine. But you also better be prepared to do what you have to do IF the dog ever goes rogue.

:iagree: :iagree:
If one of mine attacked unprovoked?? Dead Right There. I might be bawling, but I would still do it.
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I don't do those things to other people and I require the same of them.

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