ScottDLS wrote: ↑Sat Sep 11, 2021 6:05 pm
You keep missing my point. A sticker with a circle / pictogram may very well convey the owner's intent. What it does not do is legally convey that the entry of non-license holders, without some other exception or Defense to 30.05, while carrying a firearm, is prohibited.
Ok, finally we agree. My stance has been that the sign conveys the wishes of the owner to not allow guns, not that it simply shows "his bias". I agree that per my interpretation of the law, it is not effective notice. I am not arguing that it has the force of law, despite the prepaid legal folks saying that it may. My PERSONAL OPINION though is that if you are openly carrying, licensed or not, and you see this sign on the door of a restaurant and you choose to stroll in past it, then you are asking for trouble.
ScottDLS wrote: ↑Sat Sep 11, 2021 6:05 pm
Why do you believe that a sticker with a pictogram, should legally be able to bar entry to non-LTC, when you said yourself as a LTC you would carry past such a sign? Don't you respect the owner's wishes? Or do you get to disregard the owner's wishes because you have a LTC?
I think it makes sense that if I am unlicensed to carry, then anything that conveys that guns are not allowed should suffice. If I want further legal protections or exceptions, then get a license. Many who will carry unlicensed will not read all the legal minutia in the bill about effective notice and legal signs because all of that is not part of the soundbites on the news. To keep it simple, post it in a simple manner that everyday people without a law degree understand. Again, in my OPINION, a pictograph does this. It is an internationally understood sign, so there is no language barrier or anything.
Window space at a business is often used for advertising. Requiring yet another big sign, in two languages for a business to prohibit unlicensed carry is overkill. Even if they don't use the space for advertising, it makes it unattractive and uninviting.
It also makes it more difficult for those of us with a license as now we have to stop and read the sign to see if it applies to us.
When it was just 30.06, things were simple... as you drive up, you see the big sign, you immediately know what it is and don't even need to waste time getting out of the car. Throw 30.07 in to the mix, now I have to look closer. Add in a third sign, now I am going to have to stop and look to see what, if anything, pertains to me.
ScottDLS wrote: ↑Sat Sep 11, 2021 6:05 pm
See for me the answer is consistent. I don't respect the owner's wishes, whether I have LTC or not. The owner's wishes communicated by a pictogram sign or even a legally deficient 30.06 sign are stupid and unworthy of respect.
Any owner, or owner's agent, who wishes to legally bar my entry with a gun, must post the specific 3 signs to do so. Even then their wishes are still stupid, and I still won't respect them, because I have a legal exception/Defense to all of them.
That's great for you... those of us who don't have the exception must look at whatever is posted and decide if it means anything to us or not. Personally, if I see something that appears to be a legit 30.06 sign, then I don't enter. I don't get out a tape measure to see if it is 1" block letters, or look to see if it is in Spanish, or pull up the text to see if it is the exact text or if it is the older version... I take that sign for the intent and take my business elsewhere. Unless it is the mall, then I look for a door that is not posted and just avoid that particular store (looking at you Nordstroms).