The gun show a few weeks ago. 30.06?

[kauboy]

The last few Ft Worth shows have not been posted, but the one this last weekend - High Caliber - was properly posted.
Grrr walk back to car.

WAIT A COTTON PIKIN' SECOND HERE!!! (haha, sorry Charles)

I just reaffirmed my suspisions about the 30.06 sign at the High Caliber Gun Show that took place two weekends ago at the Amon G. Carter Exhibit Hall in the Will Rogers Memorial Center.

The Fort Worth Gun Show also has their shows in this facility, and on their website it specifically states that "The exhibit hall is a City owned facility...".
That right there negates any 30.06 posting, does it not???
If you want to see it for yourself: http://www.ftworthgunshow.com/mapsdirections.html

I recall bringing this up last year in another thread about this facility, but couldn't remember where I found it.

Of course this may require validation from an official city site, but this would affectively render the 30.06 sign unenforceable and I can carry next time.


EDIT: Found my post: http://www.texasshooting.com/TexasCHL_F ... highlight=

[frankie_the_yankee]

The Fort Worth Gun Show also has their shows in this facility, and on their website it specifically states that "The exhibit hall is a City owned facility...".
That right there negates any 30.06 posting, does it not???

Chas will agree.

But if the gun show enterprise rents or leases the venue from the city, then I will disagree, even though IANAL and cannot cite any case law to support my position.

This is because the matter has never (yet) been litigated, so there's no case law either way specific to someone carrying past a 30.06 sign posted on government property leased or rented by a private business.

I would never put myself in the position of being a test case for this situation. Nor would I advise anyone else to either.

But if someone volunteers, I will watch what becomes of them with great interest. And with all the people posting on this site that seem to agree that such 30.06 signs are not enforceable, I figure it's only a matter of time before someone satisfies my curiosity.



I suspect they will either end up doing time or (at a minimum) home confinement.

But that's just me.

[kauboy]

IIRC, 30.06 makes no mention of any "leasing/renting", it only mentions the "owner" of the property. The renter doesn't have a say in what is and is not allowed on property owned by someone else.

[Renegade]

I would never put myself in the position of being a test case for this situation. Nor would I advise anyone else to either

I carry handguns (concealed and unconcealed), on or about my person, past 30.06 all the time at Gun Shows. I plan to do it again at Market Hall next weekend, and the LEOs there will have no problem with it.

This is much adoo about nothing.

[Nazrat]

Bravado does not equal legal. Please cite any case law that shows that carry at gun shows is legal.

[Mike1951]

Bravado does not equal legal. Please cite any case law that shows that carry at gun shows is legal.

Quite simply, 30.06 postings in government owned buildings are invalid, making it quite legal for a licensee to ignore.

Inevitably, someone will be arrested for this, but I do not accept that I am breaking any law when I carry concealed past a 30.06 at a gun show being held in a government owned building, as almost all are.

[Renegade]

Bravado does not equal legal. Please cite any case law that shows that carry at gun shows is legal.

Show me something that says it is illegal. They are not listed as a prohibited place in 46.03, or 46.035. Seriously, if you could not carry a handgun at gun show, it would not be a very successful place to sell handguns. I have been carrying handguns on or about my person, both concealed and open, at Gun Shows since I arrived In Texas 20 years ago... You may want to read the first 2 pages of this topic.

[Renegade]

I missed this, so here goes.

There's no reason to take offense, but that's your choice.

Show me a Texas case that holds TPC §46.02 is not applicable to gun shows. You won't find it, so show me where gun shows appear in TPC §46.15. You won't find that either.

None that I know of. It is a settled issue you can transport a handgun to/from a place where they are bought, sold, repaired, or used in sporting activity. Dozens of Case Law has addressed this over the past 125 years.

The cases you cited referencing transport of a newly purchased handgun home, or to and from a gunsmith for repair are not on point with gun shows. Taking your gun to a gun show is not a necessary part of purchasing one, or having it repaired.

It is certainly a part of getting it repaired. There are gunsmiths at gun shows, but I digress. Those are TWO, exactly 2 cases. There are dozens. I do not have them in electronic form. I am not going to type them in. Anyone who wants to research this further can do so.

Since you're wrong about gun shows and TPC §46.02, you are also wrong about not carrying under the authority of your CHL when you are at a gun show. Thus, 30.06 signs can be effective at gun shows, if the show is on private property.

No I am not wrong. You have offered nothing to support your opinion that Texas Gun Owners are Criminals, and Police Officers are derelict in their duty by not arresting them for UCW. In the last two days, I have talked to 3 Peace Officers, a judge and and ADA and asked them this issue. They all say nothing illegal is taking place. I am going to Market Hall Gun Show next weekend, I will ask the DPD why they are allowing me in and not arresting me, I already know the answer - you are doing nothing illegal.

I'm not trying to argumentative, but it worries me that someone may rely upon your analysis to their detriment.

And that is worse than your analysis? Don't rely on me. When you go to a gun show, ask the Police Officer there if he is going to arrest you if you buy a handgun and carry on or about your person concealed or open, while at the gun show. He will laugh at you.

This is getting silly.

Chas.

Charles, you do realize that while you think I am wrong, your own analysis is that Gun Owners at Gun Shows are committing crimes too. You have put yourself in the position of arguing it is better to violate 46.02 than 30.06..... Is that really your position? Folks should violate 46.02 instead of 30.06 and hope that the Police do not enforce it? Check TOS/COC #4 before answering.

[Renegade]

Here is a simple way to settle the issue. A few years ago Dallas decided "there are enough guns on the streets", and decided to rid itself of Gun Shows. The City Manager, The City Attorney, the law firm they hired, and Chief Of Police concluded all they could do was not rent out city property.

I suggest, no I beg you, please contact the City of Dallas, and tell them of your legal analysis. Tell them what you believe - everyone is illegally carrying handguns at the Gun Show, and the police are not enforcing UCW. Ttell them to have Chief Kunkle do his job and enforce the law. If your legal analysis is correct, there will be no Gun Show at Market Hall this weekend, or at least nobody carrying a handgun at it.

They will be so happy, they will name a street after you.

Tom Perkins, Dallas City Attorney

David Kunkle, Chief of Police

ETA:

UCW is a serious offense, you need to report it to the authorities, just like a drunk driver.

[Photoman]

I would never put myself in the position of being a test case for this situation. Nor would I advise anyone else to either.

This position, and Frankie is not the only one that thinks this way, amazes me in comparison to what the founding fathers did.

I'm not specifically picking on Frankie...just making a point that we've become a country of lilly livered sissys, not willing to stick our neck out for much of anything.

[kauboy]

I would never put myself in the position of being a test case for this situation. Nor would I advise anyone else to either.

This position, and Frankie is not the only one that thinks this way, amazes me in comparison to what the founding fathers did.

I'm not specifically picking on Frankie...just making a point that we've become a country of lilly livered sissys, not willing to stick our neck out for much of anything.

Careful there. I stuck my neck out like this in here one time and nearly had it lopped off.
I agree though. If more patriots would be willing to take such risks, to preserve the Constitution, maybe this country would be far better off.

[frankie_the_yankee]

Bravado does not equal legal. Please cite any case law that shows that carry at gun shows is legal.

Quite simply, 30.06 postings in government owned buildings are invalid, making it quite legal for a licensee to ignore.

Inevitably, someone will be arrested for this, but I do not accept that I am breaking any law when I carry concealed past a 30.06 at a gun show being held in a government owned building, as almost all are.

First of all, none of my comments have anything to do with people who buy guns at gun shows and carry them around, and eventually out, nor do they address someone who brings a gun to a gun show and checks it in with Security where it will be unloaded and zip tied. To me, that is an absolute non issue and not worthy of any further discussion. It's legal and that's all there is to it.

My comments only refer to carrying a concealed handgun into a gun show that is posted with proper 30.06 signs.

Several people posting to this thread seem pretty sure of your interpretation that 30.06 signs are invalid if posted on a government-owned facility that is leased by a private company. So I have a suggestion. Why not simply announce that you are carrying concealed (and loaded of course) into the venue because the 30.06 signs are not valid? After all, if the fact that the building is government owned is the controlling factor, they could not even give you valid verbal notice. You could just insist on entering anyway.

Then you could test your theory where it really matters - in court.

Ordinarily, I would advise strongly against anyone doing this. But some seem so sure that you are right about this that I think it's almost a sin to not force the issue.

If you're right, the DA will most likely decline to prosecute because he will realize he has no case. So it will cost you nothing.

Of course, if my layman's interpretation of 30.06 is correct, y'all will spend a lot of money on lawyers, get convicted anyway, end up in the county jail, and have your CHL's revoked.

But what are the chances of that?

[Mike1951]

Why not simply announce that you are carrying into the venue because the 30.06 signs are not valid?

I'm not in the habit of announcing anywhere that I'm carrying.

Are you?

This isn't bravado. I'll continue to do it because I believe I'm right. I don't think I'd be arrested, but I would be barred from entering the show, at the promoter's discretion.

Why would I drive a distance to attend a gun show and then not be able to attend?

I promise two things. 1.) You'll never hear of a ND because my gun left its concealed location. 2.) If I'm ever arrested for this, I will post it here immediately.

But I won't foolishly create a scene which would only reflect badly on the CHL population as a whole and give the anti's ammunition against us.

Hey, I'm glad you're not carrying at gun shows. Truth is, I don't trust anyone else to be as responsible.

[frankie_the_yankee]

Why not simply announce that you are carrying into the venue because the 30.06 signs are not valid?

I'm not in the habit of announcing anywhere that I'm carrying.

I was hoping that for this special case you would make an exception.

This isn't bravado. I'll continue to do it because I believe I'm right. I don't think I'd be arrested, but I would be barred from entering the show, at the promoter's discretion.

If your theory is valid, the promoter would have no legal basis on which to deny you entry. If he tried to keep you out anyway, it would seem you would have legal recourse. Maybe you could wave a nearby cop over and tell him that the promoter was illegally barring you from entry. If you're right, the cop would order the promoter to allow you in with your concealed handgun, right?

Why would I drive a distance to attend a gun show and then not be able to attend?

Why let yourself be illegally kept out? Stand up for what you think is right. That's the policy I usually follow.

I promise two things. 1.) You'll never hear of a ND because my gun left its concealed location. 2.) If I'm ever arrested for this, I will post it here immediately.

Wow. Are county lockups set up with WiFi these days? But since you're not willing to announce what you're doing, you'll only get in trouble if you get "made".

If that happens, I hope you are a fast talker.

And if you get busted, I'll follow what happens to you with great interest.

But I won't foolishly create a scene which would only reflect badly on the CHL population as a whole and give the anti's ammunition against us.

Why would insisting on your legal rights create a scene that would reflect badly on CHL's and gun owners?

Did it reflect badly on CHL's and gun owners when TSRA forced the City of Houston to remove the "no guns" signs from the public transportation system, or from various city parks all over the state?

Why should this be any different?

[kauboy]

How exactly does announcing oneself as carrying a loaded firearm in anyway pertain to 30.06 which is designed to prohibit "CONCEALED" carry of firearms?

The open carrying of arms can be forbidden by the property owner/lessee, regardless of who they are. And enforceable too. If asked to leave, and you refuse, you are most definitely committing UCW then.