Private Security and CHL

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Dragonfighter
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Private Security and CHL

#1

Post by Dragonfighter » Wed Nov 28, 2007 5:30 pm

With the thread on the county employee acting as escort for the tax assesor and a few others I have had a couple questions and some general curiosity pop up. TXinvestigator is probably the best equipped to answer most of these but certainly any other input is welcome.

Private Security Commissions

When I was in college I worked as a patrol supervisor for a private security company. At that time, the background requirements were fairly light, I.E. if you could be bonded, you could be commissioned. The course was a week long course 40 maybe 50 hours with a practical and written examination. After I was commissioned I received a PR-24 endorsement which as discussed earlier, was a day long course, 2-3 hours were law and the rest was practical non-lethal use training.

My question(s):

What is the background requirement for private security commission?

What is the training requirements?

Do endorsements (PR-24, OC, TASER, etc.) still exist for private security and if so what are the training reqs. for those?

CHL Carry by Private Security

Obviously, a person with a CHL can't be employed as armed security based on the CHL, a commission would still be required. But I am wondering, if one is a non-commissioned security officer posted where armed security is not part of the contract , can that person as a CHL holder, carry for their own protection while on duty and in uniform?

I have scoured the occupational, penal and vernon's statutes and cannot seem to ferret this out.

Inquiring minds would like to know.

Kyle
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chewy555
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#2

Post by chewy555 » Wed Nov 28, 2007 6:13 pm

I will try to answer your questions. I am a Commissioned security officer.

1. Background for commission - same as CHL, from what I remember.
2. Training - to get your commission the first time or if it has been over a year since you had it, then its a one week class. With written and shooting test.
3. Endorsements (pr-24, etc.) - I dont know about a pr-24, but you can take a class on the ASP. When I took my class it was 5 hours long. With the Taser, I have not heard of one for security officers yet, but I could be wrong.

Having a CHL and working as a commissioned and non-commissioned security officer. You can not have your weapon concealed while in uniform. The Law says that a commissioned security officer must have the weapon in plain view while in uniform. Even in the rain, it must be in plain view.

I am sure that I missed something and someone else will get it.

Edit for spelling
Last edited by chewy555 on Thu Nov 29, 2007 7:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Mike1951
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#3

Post by Mike1951 » Wed Nov 28, 2007 7:15 pm

chewy555 wrote:The Law says that a commissioned security officer must have the weapon in plain view while in uniform. Even in the rain, it must be in plain view.
What about having your duty weapon in plain view and at the same time, having a concealed weapon under your CHL?
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#4

Post by chewy555 » Thu Nov 29, 2007 7:14 am

Mike1951 wrote:
chewy555 wrote:The Law says that a commissioned security officer must have the weapon in plain view while in uniform. Even in the rain, it must be in plain view.
What about having your duty weapon in plain view and at the same time, having a concealed weapon under your CHL?
No you cannot do that. You can only have one handgun on you as you are working as a commissioned security officer.
As I remember when I was taking both the CHL class and the commission class they said that you can only be under one license at a time. So you can either be using your commission or you can be using your CHL, but not both at the same time. Police officers can carry a BUG, depends on the department they work for, but commissioned security officer can not, by state law.
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#5

Post by Liberty » Thu Nov 29, 2007 7:23 am

chewy555 wrote:
Mike1951 wrote:
chewy555 wrote:The Law says that a commissioned security officer must have the weapon in plain view while in uniform. Even in the rain, it must be in plain view.
What about having your duty weapon in plain view and at the same time, having a concealed weapon under your CHL?
No you cannot do that. You can only have one handgun on you as you are working as a commissioned security officer.
As I remember when I was taking both the CHL class and the commission class they said that you can only be under one license at a time. So you can either be using your commission or you can be using your CHL, but not both at the same time. Police officers can carry a BUG, depends on the department they work for, but commissioned security officer can not, by state law.
I wonder why? Could it be be the state doesn't think much of Private security? It sounds like something that should be fixed.
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#6

Post by txinvestigator » Thu Nov 29, 2007 8:19 am

The eligibility for all Private Security board applicants is similar to CHL; however, a Class A misdemeanor is a permanent disqualifier. 18 is the minimum age.

Dragonfighter, if you were commissioned before you probably would not have to take the 30 hour course over to re-commission. You probably can just take the 6 hour renewal class, and submit that certificate along with a copy of your original 30 hour certificate.

The commission class is a minimum of 30 hours.

There never were endorsements for other weapons. A commissioned guard can carry a baton, ASP, nightstick,, PR24, etc with no additional training. Any guard can carry OC.

Only a commissioned guard can carry a firearm while on duty, CHL or not. A non-commissioned guard cannot carry a firearm while on duty. There is NO LIMIT on the number of firearms or other weapons a commissioned guard can carry, but all must be in plain view.

The intent of the legislature was to insure that the 30 hour training requirement for commissioned guards was not bypassed by companies or individuals by having non-commissioned guards carry a firearm. An unintended consequence was that even a commissioned guard who is carrying a handgun in plain view cannot carry a concealed backup weapon.
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#7

Post by chewy555 » Thu Nov 29, 2007 8:33 am

Txi can you show me where it says that there is no limit to how many weapons that a commissioned officer can carry. I have always been told that you can only have one handgun on.
I would love to be able to carry more then one while working.
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#8

Post by txinvestigator » Thu Nov 29, 2007 10:13 am

chewy555 wrote:Txi can you show me where it says that there is no limit to how many weapons that a commissioned officer can carry. I have always been told that you can only have one handgun on.
I would love to be able to carry more then one while working.
No, I cannot. Texas generally proscribes (prohibits) conduct. Unless conduct is prohibited, it is allowed.

Can you show me a law that restricts the number of weapons a guard can carry?
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#9

Post by chewy555 » Thu Nov 29, 2007 11:08 am

txinvestigator wrote:
chewy555 wrote:Txi can you show me where it says that there is no limit to how many weapons that a commissioned officer can carry. I have always been told that you can only have one handgun on.
I would love to be able to carry more then one while working.
No, I cannot. Texas generally proscribes (prohibits) conduct. Unless conduct is prohibited, it is allowed.

Can you show me a law that restricts the number of weapons a guard can carry?
Sec. 1702.170. NONAPPLICABILITY OF FIREARM RESTRICTIONS.
Sections 1702.161, 1702.169, and 1702.206 do not apply to the holder of a temporary security officer commission who:
(1) is in uniform;
(2) possesses only one firearm; and
(3) is performing the individual's duties.
This is the only place that I can find that says only one firearm. I found this on the DPS website under the Private Security page.
I may have been miss reading it.
I guess that it is up to the company that you work for as to how many weapons that you can carry.
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#10

Post by txinvestigator » Thu Nov 29, 2007 10:00 pm

chewy555 wrote:
txinvestigator wrote:
chewy555 wrote:Txi can you show me where it says that there is no limit to how many weapons that a commissioned officer can carry. I have always been told that you can only have one handgun on.
I would love to be able to carry more then one while working.
No, I cannot. Texas generally proscribes (prohibits) conduct. Unless conduct is prohibited, it is allowed.

Can you show me a law that restricts the number of weapons a guard can carry?
Sec. 1702.170. NONAPPLICABILITY OF FIREARM RESTRICTIONS.
Sections 1702.161, 1702.169, and 1702.206 do not apply to the holder of a temporary security officer commission who:
(1) is in uniform;
(2) possesses only one firearm; and
(3) is performing the individual's duties.
This is the only place that I can find that says only one firearm. I found this on the DPS website under the Private Security page.
I may have been miss reading it.
I guess that it is up to the company that you work for as to how many weapons that you can carry.
That, Chewy, is an excellent find. I failed to consider that as the board NEVER issues temporary commissions anymore. I don't know WHY that section is still in the code.

Unless you are issued a temp commission, you can carry all you want; they must be in plain view. ;)
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#11

Post by Dragonfighter » Fri Nov 30, 2007 11:48 am

Thank you so much folks. And txinvestigator, I appreciate your complete information. That original commission was over 20 years ago, so I doubt I will be going back unless and until I am retired and need a place to take a nap while drawing a check :grin:

So to clarify if I am a CHL and otherwise commissioned, I can not carry CHL while on duty (I.E. all weapons must be in plain view). {Aside: The plain view edict for the service weapon makes sense if the SO is going to fulfill his/her job as "deterrent".}

Also to clarify, that goofy class for the PR-24 was not necessary but either a scam to milk more money out of the company or perhaps an insurance discount deal. Though I could swear I received an endorsement card (carried with the pink card) and I would swear it was from the "Commission".

Thanks again, after a couple of threads here I was reeeeaaallly eaten up with curiosity.

Kyle
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#12

Post by txinvestigator » Fri Nov 30, 2007 1:58 pm

Dragonfighter wrote:Thank you so much folks. And txinvestigator, I appreciate your complete information. That original commission was over 20 years ago, so I doubt I will be going back unless and until I am retired and need a place to take a nap while drawing a check :grin:

So to clarify if I am a CHL and otherwise commissioned, I can not carry CHL while on duty (I.E. all weapons must be in plain view). {Aside: The plain view edict for the service weapon makes sense if the SO is going to fulfill his/her job as "deterrent".}

Also to clarify, that goofy class for the PR-24 was not necessary but either a scam to milk more money out of the company or perhaps an insurance discount deal. Though I could swear I received an endorsement card (carried with the pink card) and I would swear it was from the "Commission".

Thanks again, after a couple of threads here I was reeeeaaallly eaten up with curiosity.

Kyle
To be fair, 20 years ago I was not involved with the agency, so you might have gotten something with your pink card. BTW, all cards are white now, and indicate the type of gun you can carry, just like your CHL; NSA, SA and STG (for shotgun)

Although a commissioned guard can legally carry a nightstick with no additional training, I strongly suggest they do not.
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Re: Private Security and CHL

#13

Post by Tex1961 » Tue Sep 22, 2020 9:19 am

Sorry to bring up such an old dead thread, but it seemed appropriate to the question I have.... Let me explain.

I have a potential client who wishes two of their staff to become knowledgeable and proficient in firearms.. These 2 people have no experience at all. We would be starting with of course the basic NRA handgun class and then proceed to additional range time as needed....

After ongoing conversations with my client, I was informed that these 2 students would act as private security to accompany my client by driving them and while out and about during meetings ,etc.... Once I got more information I explained to the client that my class was only the basic firearm class and that to be able to carry a firearm that the students would need an actual LTC class....

That being said, since these 2 students would be acting as private security for my client, do the rules change in the eyes of the state of Texas as far as LTC VS Private Security.... Note: these students would NOT be in any type of uniform and do want to carry concealed.... My client is looking for both discrete instruction and carry....

I have my NRA instructor certificate and will be at the Texas LTC instructors class in 6 weeks (hopefully certified to teach LTC) by then... So I would be able to get these 2 students LTC trained.....
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Re: Private Security and CHL

#14

Post by rtschl » Tue Sep 22, 2020 9:43 am

They can do LTC course, but they cannot act as security - and in this case it seems as a Personal Protection Officer (PPO) without being licensed by the state under Chapter 1702. It's one thing if they are allowed to carry for work, but if the intention is for them to be security they must be licensed by the State and go through an approved school instruction class for Level III (uniformed) and then Level IV (PPO). Level III is required to become Level IV.

Edited to clarify.
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Re: Private Security and CHL

#15

Post by Tex1961 » Tue Sep 22, 2020 9:57 am

rtschl wrote:
Tue Sep 22, 2020 9:43 am
They can do LTC course, but they cannot act as security - and in this case it seems as a Personal Protection Officer (PPO) without being licensed by the state under Chapter 1702. It's one thing if they are allowed to carry for work, but if the intention is for them to be security they must be licensed by the State and go through an approved school instruction class for Level III (uniformed) and then Level IV (PPO). Level III is required to become Level IV.

Edited to clarify.
Thank you... I did a little research but anything to do with state law is clear as mud... :???: I will inform the client of this as well.... I sort of assumed this to be the case, but wanted better clarification as I did not want to give them wrong information.. Personally I'm a bit concerned about taking 2 people who know nothing about firearms up to private security trained in a short time... But since my training right now only covers basic pistol and then shortly basic LTC, that's all I can do.. Give them the classes that I am certified to teach....

I don't know who the actual client is, but they want to stay anonymous. I have no idea if this person is a high profile business person or a local celebrity or whatever... Guess it's really none of my business at this point.....
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