TABC Question

[DoubleJ]

Well, I'm going to a show tonight. The establishment is a BYOB concert venue. You can bring yer own booze in, but you can't buy it there.
so, I sent them an email asking them if they were a 51% establishment (I didn't say WHY I wanted to know hehehehe) and got the following response:

I am not understanding what you are asking. The rules are to be permitted to bring in alcohol you must have valid state issued id stating that you are at least 21. You must not leave your alcohol unattended or give it to anyone under the age of 21. No glass containers are permitted.

On Apr 11, 2008, at 9:35 AM, DoubleJ wrote:


Hello,
I am going to see a band tonight at (the place) and had a question concerning the liquor license. Now, I had read all of the information on the website, and understand the BYOB concept. However, I had a question. Does this technically make you a "red" license, or a "blue" license? Or, in other words, is (this place) a 51% establishment?

Any help in this matter would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you,
DoubleJ

[aardwolf]

The BYOB places I know are not licensed by TABC. I think they can't allow BYOB if they have a liquor license but maybe if it's a beer and wine license. Maybe srothstein can fill in the details.

[DoubleJ]

yeah, sent'em a PM. hope so. would like to be able to carry.
why?
cause I'm nekkid without it!!!

[aardwolf]

I think a better question for a BYOB place is if they sell alcohol at all or if it's strictly BYOB.

If they don't sell any alcohol and don't have a TABC license, then they're not 51% places. I know some restaurants like this. Asking the "blue or red" question if they don't have a license will probably just confuse them.

[DoubleJ]

It's strictly BYOB. and yes, it apparently DID confuse the lady that responded, as evidenced in the response I posted above!

[Skiprr]

It's strictly BYOB.

There's your answer. An establishment can't earn 51% or more of their revenue from the sale of alcohol for on-premises consumption if they don't sell alcohol.

Seriously, GC §411.204 states that "...A business that has a permit or license issued under Chapter 25, 28, 32, 69, or 74, Alcoholic Beverage Code, and that derives 51 percent or more of its income from the sale of alcoholic beverages for on-premises consumption as determined by the Texas Alcoholic Beverage Commission..." The emphasis is mine, but both conditions have to be met. 'Course, if a business derives more than 51% of its revenue from the sale of alcohol consumed on-premises and it doesn't have a license, the owners are in big trouble.

[srothstein]

I answered the PM, but let me post here and agree with what has been said. If they have no license, they cannot be 51%.

It is legal to BYOB of liquor into a place with a beer or wine license only. They could be 51% from beer and still be BYOB for liquor. I doubt it is the case, and most places that charge for admission are not going to properly be 51%.

To be sure, check the TABC Public Inquiry System to see if they have a license or permit at all.

[Velocity]

To be sure, check the TABC Public Inquiry System to see if they have a license or permit at all.

This could be a very useful system for "checking" a location beforehand to see if they're 51% or not IF it actually stated they were 51% or not. Unfortunately, it doesn't..

[HankB]

You can bring yer own booze in, but you can't buy it there.

Doesn't that answer the question???? I mean, if you can't buy liquor there, they can't possibly make 51% of their revenue from the sale of liquor for on-premesis consumption.

[srothstein]

To be sure, check the TABC Public Inquiry System to see if they have a license or permit at all.

This could be a very useful system for "checking" a location beforehand to see if they're 51% or not IF it actually stated they were 51% or not. Unfortunately, it doesn't..

I agree. I have tried to get that part put in and met resistance on how private the information is supposed to be.

But, it will tell you if they have a license at all, such as in this case. And if they have a FB (food and beverage subordinate permit), it cannot be 51%. This will help in some cases.

[CWOOD]

So, Steve,
Does this mean, for example, that the Broken Spoke in Austin which has Beer & Wine, and Mixed beverage permit AND a Food and Beverage permit CANNOT be a 51% establishment? License # MB166507.

[Skiprr]

So, Steve,
Does this mean, for example, that the Broken Spoke in Austin which has Beer & Wine, and Mixed beverage permit AND a Food and Beverage permit CANNOT be a 51% establishment? License # MB166507.

Sorry, but shouldn't you be doing your own research through the TABC system?

IMHO, Stephen is a very valuable resource here. Expecting him to comment on a specific license request is asinine.

Please.

[srothstein]

Thanks, Skiprr, but this one is no research. He did that and is just checking if he understood my post correctly. If they have an FB as a subordinate, then alcoholic beverages cannot be more than 50% of their sales.

The law in question is Alcoholic Beverage Code Sections 25.13 for beer and wine here and 28.18 for mixed beverages here

[CWOOD]

Thanks for the links and clarification, Steve.

Folks, this could be VERY helpful information in many cases if used properly. We often ask that TABC just list all the places that are 51% but they have their reasons for not doing it yet. So be it for now.

However, in MANY of the places in question, there is food service. If we are really curious about a place we can use the TABC Public Inquiry System to see if they have the FB (Food and Beverage) license. If they do, then by definition, they are NOT 51%. This is very helpful information and will answer a large percentage of our questions about particular establishments.

The Public Inquiry System is not hard to navigate and all you need is the county, city and zip code to narrow your search.

Steve, I hope to see you at a Texas Tactical match again soon.

Thanks for all your valuable contributions here.

[CWOOD]

So, Steve,
Does this mean, for example, that the Broken Spoke in Austin which has Beer & Wine, and Mixed beverage permit AND a Food and Beverage permit CANNOT be a 51% establishment? License # MB166507.

Sorry, but shouldn't you be doing your own research through the TABC system?

IMHO, Stephen is a very valuable resource here. Expecting him to comment on a specific license request is asinine.

Please.

Skiprr, I agree that Stephen is valuable to us.

Have a great day and enjoy this lovely spring weather in Texas.