made by store clerk

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smyrna
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Re: made by store clerk

#46

Post by smyrna » Tue Nov 18, 2008 5:56 pm

brianko wrote:So you were made by the clerk, and you sat outside his store for at least 10 minutes?

Personally, I would have high-tailed it out of there as quickly as possible, and not looked back.

But hey, I've gotta hand it to you, it took some guts to post this story!
This was my first thought when I read the post. I have at times anticipated what I would do if "made". I think the clerk might have given you clues that he was uncomfortable with the situation (locking the doors,etc) while you ate outside and you ignored them. I bet if you would have left, you might not have even been pulled over and could have avoided the "felony" stop.

I would have "lit a shuck outa there" but then again, I'm chicken. "rlol"


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Re: made by store clerk

#47

Post by NcongruNt » Thu Nov 20, 2008 8:04 pm

dwhitley wrote:
CHLSteve wrote:Well, thanks for sharing your story. You had to know you would take some flak for it, but it does stir a worthwhile conversation. Hopefully, we all can learn something from this.

Personally, I would leave an area immediately if I thought I had been made by a store clerk. As you said yourself, this was a bad part of town, and I'm sure he's used to dealing with all manner of thugs. Hanging out in front of his store, in a dark parking lot, menacingly eating your tacos as you plotted your robbery probably scared the bejeezus out of that poor clerk.

What do you all think about having a conversation, or offering an explanation to the store clerk at the time you got made? Assuming you were alone with the clerk, would a statement such as, "Oops, sorry about that, I am licensed. I didn't mean to alarm you." I would say licensed because many do not know what "CHL" means.
I have to say if I thought I was made as you put it I would have just showed him my CHL and said sorry for the flash. Just leaving could have landed you on the News saying attempted robbery suspect.... have you seen him... It’s not a secret society here we have a license then use it and show if you have too..... My 1 Cent.
I disagree. I have accidentally exposed my sidearm exactly once. No need for fanfare, simply covered it up and continued my business with the individual that I accidentally flashed. Nothing more was said of it. Most people don't know what a CHL is in the first place, and they have no need to be given credentials. The only folks that need to see it are the police.

I posted about it here after it happened, so you can read about it yourself. The part of town I was in also has a high volume of thugs and transients.
http://www.texasshooting.com/TexasCHL_F ... it=exposed" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

In respect to this specific incident, I would have to agree with other folks that the decision to sit and eat in the parking lot after having the cashier get uneasy in relation to possibly exposing his pistol was a poor one. I wasn't there, so I don't know how aware newlife actually was about the possibility that the clerk saw his firearm, but if I had a pretty good suspicion that he reacted that way because of an exposed firearm, I would probably just leave. If someone is going to freak out, I'd just as soon leave and not wait for it to come to a head.
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Re: made by store clerk

#48

Post by nils » Thu Nov 20, 2008 8:47 pm

:iagree: ...very good point
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Re: made by store clerk

#49

Post by atxgun » Thu Nov 20, 2008 9:34 pm

Wow.. just wow. Fears of something like this for my first walk is why I went to the corner store where I knew the clerk very well :smile:


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Re: made by store clerk

#50

Post by Abraham » Fri Nov 21, 2008 10:06 am

I suppose if you carry long enough OWB you may accidentally expose your pistol.

In a crowded parking lot, I unintentionally exposed my pistol when the wind blew with such force it pushed my covering shirt up over it. I then realized I'd been walking with it exposed for at least 10 seconds.

I immediately returned to my vehicle, got in and drove away.

Had anyone seen my pistol? I couldn't be certain. So, erring on the side of caution, I drove off and hoped no one wrote down my license plate number and truck description. I wanted to avoid the very type situation the OP describes.

Sure, I have a valid CHL, but it's my responsibility to stay concealed and I failed. Thus, I did what I could to mitigate the potential bother for the police and me.

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Re: made by store clerk

#51

Post by Excaliber » Fri Nov 21, 2008 12:20 pm

Abraham wrote:I suppose if you carry long enough OWB you may accidentally expose your pistol.

In a crowded parking lot, I unintentionally exposed my pistol when the wind blew with such force it pushed my covering shirt up over it. I then realized I'd been walking with it exposed for at least 10 seconds.

I immediately returned to my vehicle, got in and drove away.

Had anyone seen my pistol? I couldn't be certain. So, erring on the side of caution, I drove off and hoped no one wrote down my license plate number and truck description. I wanted to avoid the very type situation the OP describes.

Sure, I have a valid CHL, but it's my responsibility to stay concealed and I failed. Thus, I did what I could to mitigate the potential bother for the police and me.
There's an excellent chance that no one noticed.

People tend to see what they expect to see, and unless their attention is called to it, they will easily overlook an exposed gun because they're not looking for it and it doesn't fit with what they are used to seeing. It's a situational awareness phenomenon.

I've seen that happen too many times to count (usually with LEO's who aren't as paranoid about having the weapon noticed as CHL folks are.) In a plainclothes LEO role, I've had instances of speaking with someone for 10 minutes or so before they noticed a 4" barreled revolver carried in an OWB holster.
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Re: made by store clerk

#52

Post by Abraham » Fri Nov 21, 2008 5:15 pm

Excaliber,

Yes, I knew at the time the odds were greatly in my favor, but without absolute certainty I wasn't going to take the risk...

It's quirky how different we all are in what we'll gamble on. I continue to engage in a number of dangerous avocations, but the above kind of thing is just so easily avoided - worth the inconvenience and frankly the extreme embarrassment this sort of thing would be for me.


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Re: made by store clerk

#53

Post by LittleGun » Tue Nov 25, 2008 7:16 pm

This an interesting story. When I took my CHL class, my instructor prepared us for this kind of event. He said that if someone makes us and calls the police that they will come in full force, guns drawn. So be ready for a rough time. You did good by not giving them an attitude.


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Re: made by store clerk

#54

Post by CainA » Tue Nov 25, 2008 7:36 pm

This is a very interesting thread. Ya know, if I saw somebody exposing a firearm(for a second as you) and as long as they(the person exposing) acted casually about it, I probably wouldn't give it a second thought, but then again I do not work in a stop and rob either. I would probably think you're an under cover cop or TABC or some such thing. I'm a pretty casual guy anyway and don't get all bent out of shape about most things that others do. Now this is based on the fact that the person "looks respectable" and I know that looks can be deceiving, so take it for what it's worth, probably not much.

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Re: made by store clerk

#55

Post by Excaliber » Tue Nov 25, 2008 8:38 pm

CainA wrote:This is a very interesting thread. Ya know, if I saw somebody exposing a firearm(for a second as you) and as long as they(the person exposing) acted casually about it, I probably wouldn't give it a second thought, but then again I do not work in a stop and rob either. I would probably think you're an under cover cop or TABC or some such thing. I'm a pretty casual guy anyway and don't get all bent out of shape about most things that others do. Now this is based on the fact that the person "looks respectable" and I know that looks can be deceiving, so take it for what it's worth, probably not much.

-Cain
It's worth more than you may think.

Most folks who do manage to pick up on a momentarily exposed firearm will take the overall situation into account. If the person in question is no longer in his teens or early twenties, is dressed and groomed reasonably well, is carrying the firearm in a holster, and doesn't give off gangbanger or drug dealer vibes, most folks will conclude he's OK and go on about their business.

The reverse is true if you eliminate the holster and take all the other factors to the opposite extreme.

There is considerable value to looking and acting like a responsible and respectable citizen when things don't go exactly as planned. OTOH, there are some drawbacks to being able to pass for one of the less savory members of society, even if you're not really a member of that club.
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Re: made by store clerk

#56

Post by The Annoyed Man » Tue Nov 25, 2008 8:45 pm

I know that it's not an absolutely certain indicator, but if I see a for real holster, my gut reaction will be that the person is probably legal. I've seen a lot of gang-banger types over the years who were arrested with guns or were involved in shootouts and brought to the ER, and spoke to a number of them. None of them had ever used a holster. They always had either stuck their pistol down their wasteband (Mexican carry?), or in a jacket or sweatshirt pocket. My gut feeling is that the vast majority of people who bother buying a nice holster to properly carry their pistol with are not law breakers - unless they are carrying without a permit but are otherwise not criminals.

Plus, I don't know about you guys, but I have a fairly well developed Spidey Sense. Whenever my instincts have told me that something was hinkey, it usually turned out to be true.

I know I could be wrong, but that's my reaction.
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Re: made by store clerk

#57

Post by asleepatthereel » Wed Nov 26, 2008 2:30 am

The Annoyed Man wrote:
Plus, I don't know about you guys, but I have a fairly well developed Spidey Sense. Whenever my instincts have told me that something was hinkey, it usually turned out to be true.

I know I could be wrong, but that's my reaction.
Me too. I always listen to my senses. If something seems hinkey, it probably is, and I dont stick around to verify the fact. The OP knew he was made by the clerk. That, in my mind, would have made the clerk feel that something was hinkey. I definately would have left and found a better place to eat my tacos.
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Re: made by store clerk

#58

Post by Excaliber » Wed Nov 26, 2008 7:31 am

The Annoyed Man wrote:I know that it's not an absolutely certain indicator, but if I see a for real holster, my gut reaction will be that the person is probably legal. I've seen a lot of gang-banger types over the years who were arrested with guns or were involved in shootouts and brought to the ER, and spoke to a number of them. None of them had ever used a holster. They always had either stuck their pistol down their wasteband (Mexican carry?), or in a jacket or sweatshirt pocket. My gut feeling is that the vast majority of people who bother buying a nice holster to properly carry their pistol with are not law breakers - unless they are carrying without a permit but are otherwise not criminals.

Plus, I don't know about you guys, but I have a fairly well developed Spidey Sense. Whenever my instincts have told me that something was hinkey, it usually turned out to be true.

I know I could be wrong, but that's my reaction.
The Annoyed Man's holster related observations are shared by most LEOs. Illegal concealed weapon carriers don't use holsters because they want to be able to ditch the gun without retaining evidence that they were carrying one. Folks who wear holsters are generally not worried about that because the vast majority of them are carrying legally. This is a very useful discriminator for folks who spend their day rolling up on scenes where there is a lot of uncertainty about who's a good guy and who's not.

There's an outstanding book written about the value of paying attention to your Spidey Sense - The Gift of Fear by Gavin deBecker. It's well worth reading for anyone who wants to understand situational awareness. Caution: Mr. de Becker does not approve of civilian use of firearms, quite possibly because he watched one of his parents shoot the other when he was very young. If you can overlook that bias, the rest of the book should be viewed as virtually "required reading" for any CHL holder.
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"An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it." - Jeff Cooper
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Re: made by store clerk

#59

Post by Flatland2D » Tue Dec 02, 2008 10:14 pm

Just wanted to thank the OP for posting this and the responses it got. I would probably change a few things about how I would handle a situation like this after reading this thread.
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Re: made by store clerk

#60

Post by Nintao » Thu Dec 04, 2008 3:49 am

Thanks for sharing your encounter.

My step-father lived in Ft Worth for many years and worked at many bars in the Stockyards. Before he married my mother I would spend a weekend here and there with him taking in the atmosphere, but I alos got to meet many of Ft Worth's LEO (on good terms I might add), so it does not suprise me that things ended up with you going home and not going to jail. The LEOs that I got to meet are good guys.

Now a recent trip to my local 7-11 late at night that I have been going to forever made me question my concealed carry. I was wearing only a button up shirt over my IWB S&W M&P .40 (full size). I was getting a few items and it seamed to me that one of the clerks was looking in the area of my firearm. I stealthfully asked my friend out of ear-shot if I was showing and he answered "no, you are all good". Maybe it was coincidence, or maybe he is a psycic :). Wildscar on the forum (my brother) says I am just being more aware of everyone with regards to my CCW.
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