Should the law be changed?

[txfour]

I've been reading the penal code over and over and there is just one section that baffles me. It's the 51% sign.

Does anyone know what the thought process was when they wrote that you can not carry in an establishment that has 51% of their sales coming from alcohol? I understand a bar. We all know that when having a firearm on your person there is no legal limit as far alcohol consumption is concerned. I know I would never take a gun to a bar regardless if it was legal. My confusion I guess is as it relates to convenience stores and such.

It is one of these places that you are probably at your highest risk to encounter a BG. I am not picking on people who drink (as I do myself on occasion) but we all are aware that alcohol and drugs lead to many crimes. We also know that these establishments are high on the list of robberies. Say you have to stop because your child needs to use the restroom and you leave your firearm secured in the vehicle. BG comes in and your completely helpless.

Why does it matter if 51% of their sales come from alcohol? A store is not a bar.

Shouldn't the law read "51% of sales from alcohol whereas it is also legal to consume on premises of sale"?

[nitrogen]

Because guns + alcohol = bad juju.

I don't see the problem. At least it's legal to carry in places where alcohol is served, like resturants. Many carry states ban carry ANYWHERE alcohol is served.

btw thats what the law DOES say, 51% of sales for on premise consumption. So liquor stores are legal.

[texasgirl]

I think convenience stores and even liquor stores are ok to carry I thought the 51% are for on premise consumption. I might be wrong though, that has happened before.

[Originalist]

(b) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries a handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, regardless of whether the handgun is concealed, on or about the license holder's person:
(1) on the premises of a business that has a permit or license issued under Chapter 25, 28, 32, 69, or 74, Alcoholic Beverage Code, if the business derives 51 percent or more of its income from the sale or service of alcoholic beverages for on-premises consumption, as determined by the Texas Alcoholic Beverage Commission under Section 104.06, Alcoholic Beverage Code;


This is the law taken directly out of the Penal Code, therefor convenient, liquor stores, etc are perfectly legal..... Most times you will see the "unlicensed possession is a felony" sign


Bryan

[txfour]

(b) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries a handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, regardless of whether the handgun is concealed, on or about the license holder's person:
(1) on the premises of a business that has a permit or license issued under Chapter 25, 28, 32, 69, or 74, Alcoholic Beverage Code, if the business derives 51 percent or more of its income from the sale or service of alcoholic beverages for on-premises consumption, as determined by the Texas Alcoholic Beverage Commission under Section 104.06, Alcoholic Beverage Code;


This is the law taken directly out of the Penal Code, therefor convenient, liquor stores, etc are perfectly legal..... Most times you will see the "unlicensed possession is a felony" sign


Bryan

Well crap. I am glad I posted. That was exactly my gripe as to why you couldn't carry in a convenience store. Problem solved.

Thanks.

[txfour]

Let me ask this then while we are on the subject. There is a convenient store that sell the usual. They also have a grill where you can order burgers and such. The owner will also sell beer, but she has a two beer limit for all customers. Now, with that said, I go to this store daily (because it is clean and smoke free) and in the 6 months it has been open, have only seen 3-4 people drinking a beer in there. I am 99.999% certain that her stores income is not 51% alcohol by consumption on premises. Does she have a sign posted legally? Does the TABC or ATF have a website with gross incomes were I can view if I am wrong?

My best bet is to just not carry in the store, which I don't, but just curious as to how all of this works since I am new to it all.

Thanks.

[CainA]

Does she have a sign posted legally?

I take it by your question that she has a 51% sign posted?

-Cain

[Charles L. Cotton]

Let me ask this then while we are on the subject. There is a convenient store that sell the usual. They also have a grill where you can order burgers and such. The owner will also sell beer, but she has a two beer limit for all customers. Now, with that said, I go to this store daily (because it is clean and smoke free) and in the 6 months it has been open, have only seen 3-4 people drinking a beer in there. I am 99.999% certain that her stores income is not 51% alcohol by consumption on premises. Does she have a sign posted legally? Does the TABC or ATF have a website with gross incomes were I can view if I am wrong?

My best bet is to just not carry in the store, which I don't, but just curious as to how all of this works since I am new to it all.

Thanks.

The TABC is charged with responsibility of having businesses post the correct signs; either the 51% sign, or the "blue" unlicensed carry sign. You can carry in any business that sells alcohol for on-premises consumption, so long as it is not a 51% location. The TABC is very good about answering complaints from people who think a business has incorrectly posted a 51% sign.

Chas.

[Dave01]

Does anyone know what the thought process was when they wrote that you can not carry in an establishment that has 51% of their sales coming from alcohol? I understand a bar. We all know that when having a firearm on your person there is no legal limit as far alcohol consumption is concerned. I know I would never take a gun to a bar regardless if it was legal.

This topic comes up every now and again. It is important to note that it is not illegal to have a drink while your carrying. It is illegal to be intoxicated while carrying. The 0.08 BAC does not necessarily apply here...it is most up to the officer to determine "intoxication". Regardless, I still don't understand why carrying in a bar is off limits. Just because I'm in a bar doesn't mean I'm drinking. Under the current law, I can't sit in a bar and drink ginger ale while armed (my drink of choice when driving). I don't need regulation to force me to be responsible.

Alcohol and guns don't mix, but let me choose which one I want.

[mr.72]

I understand a bar. We all know that when having a firearm on your person there is no legal limit as far alcohol consumption is concerned.

Actually, this is one I can't support either.

As a musician who occasionally plays in a bar, it is a major pain to not be able to carry in the bar where I might be playing. Suffice to say the gear load-in is prime opportunity to be robbed, and usually after the band tears down and I am leaving the place it really stinks to have to be disarmed, in particular if it's the routine like the band leader divvying up the pay in cash in the alley behind the bar at 2:30 in the morning. No thanks man.

I think the law that makes it illegal to carry a gun while intoxicated is enough. No reason to ban carrying in a bar. It would be far more sensible to ban possession of car keys in a bar.

[shootthesheet]

I don't agree with restrictions on 51% establishments. I think if a CHL is caught with a gun when "drunk" they should be punished. But to restrict carry is as near sighted as any law that exists because of what might happen. We have laws that cover the crime. Why restrict the most law abiding because they want to enjoy a night with their friends? I have done so without a drink many nights as a designated driver. Armed = don't drink at all because it is up to the LEO to determine if a CHL holder is intoxicated....right? Not a problem.

I will also say that I do not drink outside my home. I don't go to bars or anywhere that a legitimate 51% sign can be posted. Doing away with this restriction would not affect my life at all. However, it is wrong for a government to determine that we are not responsible enough to carry inside a bar. It is up to us every moment of the day to make proper decisions about carrying. Why is a School or bar or courthouse a place we cannot be trusted? It shows me just how little faith our elected servants put in us, who have proven we do the right thing. I don't want to lose my rights and privileges so I can go into a bar, drink, and get into problems of my choice or not. Punish the guilty and leave the majority innocent alone to exercise their rights.

Besides, bars can post 30.06 sighs too.

[jimlongley]

Let me ask this then while we are on the subject. There is a convenient store that sell the usual. They also have a grill where you can order burgers and such. The owner will also sell beer, but she has a two beer limit for all customers. Now, with that said, I go to this store daily (because it is clean and smoke free) and in the 6 months it has been open, have only seen 3-4 people drinking a beer in there. I am 99.999% certain that her stores income is not 51% alcohol by consumption on premises. Does she have a sign posted legally? Does the TABC or ATF have a website with gross incomes were I can view if I am wrong?

My best bet is to just not carry in the store, which I don't, but just curious as to how all of this works since I am new to it all.

Thanks.

I would also bet that consumption of alcohol, sold on premise for consumption off premise, on premise, is illegal.

I would check to see if that store has a license to sell alcohol for consumption on premise.

[Mike1951]

I do not think that the original concealed carry law could have ever passed without this restriction, which was a concession to the "blood in the streets" believers.

Now, I do not see any large group getting behind the effort to remove this.

And were it changed, sooner or later, there would be a shooting in a bar by a licensee.

[CainA]

I think the law was imposed more to pacify the anti gun people more than it was to infringe on CHL holders, but I don't know any better.

-Cain

[txfour]

Does she have a sign posted legally?

I take it by your question that she has a 51% sign posted?

-Cain

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