AMC Theater at the Parks Mall... 30.06(kinda)

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kauboy
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AMC Theater at the Parks Mall... 30.06(kinda)

#1

Post by kauboy »

I was at the AMC theater in the Parks Mall in Arlington with the little lady. We were going to see "The Ugly Truth" (great man's man movie, wife loved it, don't take the kids ;-) )
Anyways, while we were getting our tickets, I looked down at the lower corner of the glass window pane, and there it was.
Worded to a 'T', English and Spanish.
I got squeamish...
I mumbled to my wife that I'd have to go back to the car, but then took another look... Sure enough, there was no possible way it was big enough. Easily smaller than 8x11.
So... I had a decision to make. I could walk all the way out to the parking lot and disarm to adhere to an improperly posted sign, or I could disregard it and take my chances if anything unexpected happened.

I don't like disarming when I don't absolutely have to, and I relish the technicalities that make the law so verbose.
You can probably guess which I chose.

So, I have to ask...
Do y'all think I did the right thing, or no?
Has anyone else been faced with this decision there?

( I did find the Parks thread, and saw that the Parks itself isn't posted. I also found the general AMC thread, but didn't find any answer addressing any size issue. 13 pages, maybe I missed it. Apologies if so.)
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A-R
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Re: AMC Theater at the Parks Mall... 30.06(kinda)

#2

Post by A-R »

Something I've often wondered: Let's suppose somehow you were "caught" carrying inside this place with properly worded, but improperly sized sign. You're arrested (cop says "tell it to tha judge").

At what point does your "state of mind" come into play in a potential prosecution? Does the prosecutor have any legal ground to say "you knew that the owner of his property desired you not to bring a gun on premises, but you willfully did so anyway because of a minor technicality"

Probably wouldn't happen JUST for the carrying charge. But perhaps you needed to use your gun. Perhaps there is some question about the legality of that use of force/deadly force.

I know what everyone here will say "the law says it must be this large of type" etc. And I agree. But I'm wondering if by walking into a situation that is THAT CLOSE to the line - proper wording, proper placement, just improper size - you're opening yourself up to some "lawyer tricks".

If I'm a prosecutor I would say "the reason for the specificity of the law is so the sign cannot be missed by people entering the building. But YOU SIR, admitted on http://www.texaschlforum.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; that you in fact DID IN FACT SEE the sign ... so why did you choose to ignore it?"

Anyway, I realize this is all getting to be a bit ridiculous in a Perry Mason/John Grisham kind of way. But just some random thoughts I've had before .... sort of a slippyer slope/Murphy's Law kind of worst-case scenario.
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Re: AMC Theater at the Parks Mall... 30.06(kinda)

#3

Post by fickman »

I walk past them also.
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Re: AMC Theater at the Parks Mall... 30.06(kinda)

#4

Post by android »

austinrealtor wrote: I know what everyone here will say "the law says it must be this large of type" etc. And I agree. But I'm wondering if by walking into a situation that is THAT CLOSE to the line - proper wording, proper placement, just improper size - you're opening yourself up to some "lawyer tricks".

If I'm a prosecutor I would say "the reason for the specificity of the law is so the sign cannot be missed by people entering the building. But YOU SIR, admitted on http://www.texaschlforum.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; that you in fact DID IN FACT SEE the sign ... so why did you choose to ignore it?"
That's the beauty of the law. We don't know and don't need to know the legislator's exact intent when they wrote it. But it describes a legal sign very specifically. Anything that does not match that description for all intents and purposes does not exist.

And just as the legislators intent is not important, neither is the movie owners. I can "want" a lot of things. If I truly want to exclude CHL holders from my property, there is a clear and precise method of doing so. Otherwise, it just doesn't count legally.
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Purplehood
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Re: AMC Theater at the Parks Mall... 30.06(kinda)

#5

Post by Purplehood »

Agreed. My AMC theater does the same thing. Little tiny sign with the correct wording. I walk on by.
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Re: AMC Theater at the Parks Mall... 30.06(kinda)

#6

Post by Shorts »

If its improper it is the same as walking past the ghostbusters 'no guns' sign in a window. If you are caught, you're asked to leave. And you comply. And I might add you go home and figure out how you were made so you correct it :tiphat:
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Re: AMC Theater at the Parks Mall... 30.06(kinda)

#7

Post by bdickens »

It is all quite simple. the law says the sign must have this exact wording, in block letters at least this big and posted where you can see it. Tell it to the judge? I will, thank you.
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Re: AMC Theater at the Parks Mall... 30.06(kinda)

#8

Post by USA1 »

if you don't make it a habit of getting "outed" all the time , whats there to worry about .

i would have just walked right in too .

i worry more about them noticing all the candy i'm smuggling in from walgreens . :drool:
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Re: AMC Theater at the Parks Mall... 30.06(kinda)

#9

Post by Shorts »

USA1 wrote:if you don't make it a habit of getting "outed" all the time , whats there to worry about .

i would have just walked right in too .

i worry more about them noticing all the candy i'm smuggling in from walgreens . :drool:

LOL +1 I'm more worried about my snacks getting confiscated than my heater :biggrinjester:
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Re: AMC Theater at the Parks Mall... 30.06(kinda)

#10

Post by USA1 »

the only crime committed here , was them charging $ 9.50 for a ticket :shock:
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JJVP
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Re: AMC Theater at the Parks Mall... 30.06(kinda)

#11

Post by JJVP »

austinrealtor wrote:Something I've often wondered: Let's suppose somehow you were "caught" carrying inside this place with properly worded, but improperly sized sign. You're arrested (cop says "tell it to tha judge").

At what point does your "state of mind" come into play in a potential prosecution? Does the prosecutor have any legal ground to say "you knew that the owner of his property desired you not to bring a gun on premises, but you willfully did so anyway because of a minor technicality"

Probably wouldn't happen JUST for the carrying charge. But perhaps you needed to use your gun. Perhaps there is some question about the legality of that use of force/deadly force.

I know what everyone here will say "the law says it must be this large of type" etc. And I agree. But I'm wondering if by walking into a situation that is THAT CLOSE to the line - proper wording, proper placement, just improper size - you're opening yourself up to some "lawyer tricks".

If I'm a prosecutor I would say "the reason for the specificity of the law is so the sign cannot be missed by people entering the building. But YOU SIR, admitted on http://www.texaschlforum.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; that you in fact DID IN FACT SEE the sign ... so why did you choose to ignore it?"

Anyway, I realize this is all getting to be a bit ridiculous in a Perry Mason/John Grisham kind of way. But just some random thoughts I've had before .... sort of a slippyer slope/Murphy's Law kind of worst-case scenario.

People get convictions for murder thrown out on technicalities all the time (i.e. failed to read him/her their Miranda rights). Also, all they can do is ask you to leave, not arrest you, unless you fail to leave when asked. So unless the OP has an attitude and refuses to leave, he will not be arrested. The law is very clear in what makes a legal 30.06 sign. That sign does not conform to the law and is indeed invalid. That however does not prevent the owner from asking him to leave and he must comply. But that is all he can do, even if the sign met all the specification of the law.

PC 930.06. TRESPASS BY HOLDER OF LICENSE TO CARRY
CONCEALED HANDGUN. (a) A license holder commits an offense if
the license holder:
(1) carries a handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter
411, Govemment Code, on property of another without effective
consent; and
(2) received notice that:
(A) entry on the property by a license holder with a concealed
handgun was forbidden; or
(B) remaining on the property with a concealed handgun was
forbidden and failed to depart.

(b) For purposes of this section, a person receives notice if the
owner of the property or someone with apparent authority to act for the
owner provides notice to the person by oral or written communication.
(c) In this section:
(1) "Entry" has the meaning assigned by Section 30.05(b).
(2) "License holder has the meaning assigned by Section
46.035(9.
(3) "Written communication" means:
(A) a card or other document on which is written language
identical to the following: "Pursuant to Section 30.06, Penal Code
(trespass by holder of license to carry a concealed handgun), a person
licensed under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Govemment Code (concealed
handgun law), may not enter this property with a concealed
handgun"; or
(B) a sign posted on the property that:
(i) includes the language described by Paragraph (A) in both
English and Spanish;
(ii) appears in contrasting colors with block letters at least
one inch in height;
and
(iii) is displayed in a conspicuous manner clearly visible to
the public.
(d) An offense under this section is a Class A misdemeanor.
(e) It is an exception to the application of this section that the property
on which the license holder cames a handgun is owned or leased
by a governmental entity and is not a premises or other place on which
the license holder is prohibited from carrying the handgun under
Section 46.03 or 46.035.
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Re: AMC Theater at the Parks Mall... 30.06(kinda)

#12

Post by joe817 »

USA1 wrote:the only crime committed here , was them charging $ 9.50 for a ticket :shock:
:iagree: And $4.50 box of popcorn & $2.75 for a small coke. That's why we don't go to the movies anymore. We just wait until they come out on DirectTV and watch it for $3.99 all day long, from the comfort of our home.
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Re: AMC Theater at the Parks Mall... 30.06(kinda)

#13

Post by FlynJay »

I don't go out of my way to look for 30.06 postings. A properly posted 30.06 sign is very conspicuous (I believe the intent of the legislation).

In your instance, if I had noticed a properly worded but incorrect sign I would have disarmed. You have admitted that you have seen the posting and that the wording appeared correct. This to me reflects that you have been given notice. If you hadn't seen the sign you would have a valid defense, in that the sign was not conspicuously posted.

I may not like it but the property owner has the right to limit the carrying of weapons on their property. Disarm or don't enter.
Last edited by FlynJay on Fri Aug 21, 2009 3:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: AMC Theater at the Parks Mall... 30.06(kinda)

#14

Post by Drewthetexan »

Years past I was in the habit of smuggling 6-packs into the theater. Two front pockets, two back pockets, two laced up in my boots. I'm pretty sure if they didn't catch that, they won't catch you carrying (unless you are being conspicuous).

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Re: AMC Theater at the Parks Mall... 30.06(kinda)

#15

Post by DrinkRaiderade »

All of the AMC's have this same sign, and you are correct, they are not large enough, and the wording is not in block lettering.

The signs I have seen use normal font UPPER and lower case letters, not BLOCK LETTERING as required. The lettering is also only about a half inch high. They also only post at the ends of the ticket counters (What happens if you go to a booth in the middle?, or if you buy a ticket from a kiosk?, or a friend buys your ticket before you get there?) Have you received effective notice under 30.06? It looks like AMC really doesn't want you to carry there, but they only took a half-hearted effort to post. (They probably didn't like the aesthetics of the larger signs, shows you what is really important to them)
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