Do you practice a phrase to yell if you draw on a BG?

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snorri
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Re: Do you practice a phrase to yell if you draw on a BG?

#121

Post by snorri » Sat Jan 18, 2014 7:57 pm

HerbM wrote:We pass close to people all of the time, even in open areas. The standard example is returning to your car after shopping at the grocery store, mall, or big box store.

We can't shoot everyone -- not even everyone who deserves it. :)

We can't run from everyone -- at least not all of the time.
It sounds like you have some experience with scenario based training. It also sounds like some other people have game plans that are firmly grounded in theory. I sincerely hope it never costs them anything dear.
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Re: Do you practice a phrase to yell if you draw on a BG?

#122

Post by HerbM » Thu Mar 06, 2014 12:22 am

Avoiding Criminal Assaults -- Presentation at 17th Annual Texas Concealed Handgun Association (TCHA) conference in Kerrville
https://drive.google.com/folderview?id= ... sp=sharing

PowerPoint and PDF for download if you are interested.

Go Home Safe!

I had a great time delivery this presentation to the very fine group of people at the TCHA Convention. Most of the folks there were CHL Instructors and it is safe to say the presentation was very well received.

So if you are interested in the full story of how we do this in our Austin Combatives & Self-Defense group please take a look.

You are welcome to use or share it.

It was also my great pleasure to meet our forum host, Charles Cotton.
HerbM

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Re: Do you practice a phrase to yell if you draw on a BG?

#123

Post by TacShot » Sat Mar 08, 2014 12:01 am

Getting past all the macho talk and the bar humor, the CHL needs to give this some serious thought. If it is a direct imminent threat in close proximity, there may not be time to say anything. Should it appear at a distance, before it escalates into a threat to your life, and you have a chance to command with confidence that you are not someone to mess with, you may win the battle without firing a shot. If it occurs in a public area, you can draw the attention of witnesses as the victim by shouting, "Stop, leave me alone," or such to indicate you are not the aggressor. Remember it is the jury you may have to convince. A hungry prosecutor could have a field day with some of the possible quotes that have appeared in this thread, and the responders may have inadvertently preprogrammed themselves to say during the adrenalin rush. Both Wenger and Mann suggest thinking about scenarios and how you would act under certain circumstances. The "what if" game can produce well thought out plans, rehearsed many times in your head or on the range, that will give you the ability to make the BG fight on your terms rather than simply reacting to him. The plans should include the commands you would use to take control of the situation and thinking them through may keep you from saying the wrong thing that may come back and haunt you, if you are involved in a shooting.
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TacShot
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Re: Do you practice a phrase to yell if you draw on a BG?

#124

Post by TacShot » Sat Mar 08, 2014 12:19 am

HerbM wrote:Avoiding Criminal Assaults -- Presentation at 17th Annual Texas Concealed Handgun Association (TCHA) conference in Kerrville
https://drive.google.com/folderview?id= ... sp=sharing

PowerPoint and PDF for download if you are interested.

Go Home Safe!

I had a great time delivery this presentation to the very fine group of people at the TCHA Convention. Most of the folks there were CHL Instructors and it is safe to say the presentation was very well received.

So if you are interested in the full story of how we do this in our Austin Combatives & Self-Defense group please take a look.

You are welcome to use or share it.

It was also my great pleasure to meet our forum host, Charles Cotton.
A terrific piece of work, THANK YOU for sharing it, HERB M!
"There is no difference between communism and socialism, except in the means of achieving the same ultimate end: communism proposes to enslave men by force, socialism—by vote. It is merely the difference between murder and suicide." The Monument Builders, Ayn Rand (1962)


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Re: Do you practice a phrase to yell if you draw on a BG?

#125

Post by o b juan » Sat Mar 08, 2014 1:06 am

If you have to yell something it is to late!! :headscratch :headscratch
CHL Instructor since 95'/ School safety Since Jan 17' :patriot:

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Re: Do you practice a phrase to yell if you draw on a BG?

#126

Post by Beiruty » Sat Mar 08, 2014 8:34 am

I was asked by Srgt. Police officer, if you are in Restaurant, Mall, Place of Worship, and it is an active shooter who just opened fire. What do you do?
My answer: Shoot-back! and he was like :shock: :shock: he added we have to talk :woohoo
So what is your answer?
Beiruty,
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Re: Do you practice a phrase to yell if you draw on a BG?

#127

Post by apostate » Sat Mar 08, 2014 9:17 am

Beiruty wrote:I was asked by Srgt. Police officer, if you are in Restaurant, Mall, Place of Worship, and it is an active shooter who just opened fire. What do you do?
My answer: Shoot-back! and he was like :shock: :shock: he added we have to talk :woohoo
So what is your answer?
I don't have enough information to answer.

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Re: Do you practice a phrase to yell if you draw on a BG?

#128

Post by jmra » Sat Mar 08, 2014 9:20 am

apostate wrote:
Beiruty wrote:I was asked by Srgt. Police officer, if you are in Restaurant, Mall, Place of Worship, and it is an active shooter who just opened fire. What do you do?
My answer: Shoot-back! and he was like :shock: :shock: he added we have to talk :woohoo
So what is your answer?
I don't have enough information to answer.
I don't know what the question has to do with the topic of the thread.
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Beiruty
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Re: Do you practice a phrase to yell if you draw on a BG?

#129

Post by Beiruty » Sat Mar 08, 2014 9:21 am

apostate wrote:
Beiruty wrote:I was asked by Srgt. Police officer, if you are in Restaurant, Mall, Place of Worship, and it is an active shooter who just opened fire. What do you do?
My answer: Shoot-back! and he was like :shock: :shock: he added we have to talk :woohoo
So what is your answer?
I don't have enough information to answer.
Options:
1) Draw and engage the active shooter
2) Seek the first exit
3) Seek a hide out and wait for the cavaliers.
Beiruty,
United we stand, dispersed we falter
2014: NRA Endowment lifetime member


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Re: Do you practice a phrase to yell if you draw on a BG?

#130

Post by apostate » Sat Mar 08, 2014 9:24 am

Beiruty wrote:
apostate wrote:
Beiruty wrote:I was asked by Srgt. Police officer, if you are in Restaurant, Mall, Place of Worship, and it is an active shooter who just opened fire. What do you do?
My answer: Shoot-back! and he was like :shock: :shock: he added we have to talk :woohoo
So what is your answer?
I don't have enough information to answer.
Options:
1) Draw and engage the active shooter
2) Seek the first exit
3) Seek a hide out and wait for the cavaliers.
There are more choices than those but be that as it may, you haven't told me enough about the scenario. One size does not fit all.

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Re: Do you practice a phrase to yell if you draw on a BG?

#131

Post by Excaliber » Sat Mar 08, 2014 9:26 am

HerbM wrote:Avoiding Criminal Assaults -- Presentation at 17th Annual Texas Concealed Handgun Association (TCHA) conference in Kerrville
https://drive.google.com/folderview?id= ... sp=sharing

PowerPoint and PDF for download if you are interested.

Go Home Safe!

I had a great time delivery this presentation to the very fine group of people at the TCHA Convention. Most of the folks there were CHL Instructors and it is safe to say the presentation was very well received.

So if you are interested in the full story of how we do this in our Austin Combatives & Self-Defense group please take a look.

You are welcome to use or share it.

It was also my great pleasure to meet our forum host, Charles Cotton.
This is excellent advice well presented in a compact format.

The resources it draws on are solid, and I know from experience that the techniques work in the street. I've used a lot of them many times and am certain that they have made it unnecessary to deploy last resort options to the mutual benefit of both the aggressor and myself.

Thanks to HerbM for making this valuable information available in a format that can easily be passed along to others.
Excaliber

"An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it." - Jeff Cooper
I am not a lawyer. Nothing in any of my posts should be construed as legal or professional advice.

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Re: Do you practice a phrase to yell if you draw on a BG?

#132

Post by ELB » Sat Mar 08, 2014 10:37 am

HerbM and I, and several others practice combatives* together as much as possible, and Avoiding Criminal Attacks (ACA) is one of the things we cover; we go back to it periodically to tune up.

Believe me, weare always happy to work on the ACA with new people, it helps us too, and if any of you in the Austin area, or that feel like traveling to the Austin area as I do, are more than welcome to practice with us. The group has scheduled meeting times on Saturday mornings, Monday evenings, and Wednesday evenings -- you can find more details at the Meetup and Facebook links he provides, or PM HerbM or me. Taking the risk of talking for HerbM, he loves this stuff so much he is likely to make himself available on other nights occasionally. I would too but I live too far away from Austin to easily hop up there without some scheduling. However I am in the Seguin area, so if anyone is closer by we could work something out.

It really helps to work on this with a couple others that know how it works, and at the place we practice we have room to do it, and can even go out in the parking lot.

The actions of the...protocol or whatever you call it... are pretty simple, but like anything, it takes practice to do it well, and even more practice to make it reliable under stress. Please come see us!
USAF 1982-2005
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Re: Do you practice a phrase to yell if you draw on a BG?

#133

Post by ELB » Sat Mar 08, 2014 10:59 am

o b juan wrote:If you have to yell something it is to late!! :headscratch :headscratch
If you have to shoot, it is "too late." ;-) And it might even be too late to shoot.

There are certainly violent criminal ambushes on the street that take you from zero to fight-for-survival instantly, and so yes there's not always time to say something before hand.

But criminals don't just appear out of thin air, they come from someplace and they are looking for a target. They may have planned this for awhile, or you may just be a target of opportunity. If you can pick up on their approach, then you have time to do something besides wait for the fighting and shooting to begin. If you can deflect them, discourage them, keep them from ever getting to the point of violence, that is A Good Thing. And if you do have to go to weapons, having made clear who is the aggressor and who is the defender is also A Good Thing.

HerbM discusses one way to functionalize awareness in the slide show he linked above; I also discussed it a bit in this post: How to escape the white zone. The Hands-Eyes-Shirt-Shoes-Hats-Tats mantra helps clue you in before it is too late. The ACA helps you with what to do when you detect an approaching but not yet imminent threat. This takes care of a good proportion of events.
USAF 1982-2005
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“The only thing more enjoyable than seeing your opponent lose an election they rigged is seeing them lose an investigation they rigged.” Author unknown but dead on the mark.


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Re: Do you practice a phrase to yell if you draw on a BG?

#134

Post by HerbM » Sun Mar 09, 2014 12:02 am

Right, ELB.

And those who reviewed the presentation carefully will recall that this is mentioned -- the situation may require condensing the "back off sequence" as necessary to get up with a dynamic attack that is already underway, or even an approach that is already too close for security and comfort.

We still practice it -- and find that BACK OFF! is the best thing to yell even if the trigger is being depressed.

Yelling HELPS -- it helps you, it helps make the criminal rethink his actions, and it helps the witnesses understand the situation and that you are not the aggressor.

It costs nothing, not even time in this latter must urgent case.

In any case where there is any time left, it might change the entire dynamic, cause the criminal to hesitate, or bring assistance from witnesses or bystanders.

Hope that you don't yell something politically incorrect while you are legitimately defending your life with a firearm -- and that no one catches it in a recording.

It may not matter how justified you were, that surprise exclamation may come back to haunt you or to even endanger your freedom.

PPPPPP

Prior Practice Presents Pitifully Poor Performance.

In general, you will fight the way you practice -- and if you don't practice you will likely fight very poorly -- or at best somewhat randomly.

Remember, the folks who tested (only part of) these methods in South Africa, reported 85% of criminal assaults were prevented just by the Back Off sequence.

How many of you carry a firearm because you never expect to need it? Whatever your expectation, wouldn't you prefer to need it 85% less (on average)?

For my part, being "average" is not my goal -- some people in South Africa must have done BETTER than average. So my goal, for myself and all of my friends is to be: EXCELLENT

No plan survives first contact with the enemy, yet having a plan is still a key element in surviving enemy contact.

Go Home Safe!


--
HerbM
HerbM


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Re: Do you practice a phrase to yell if you draw on a BG?

#135

Post by HerbM » Sat Mar 22, 2014 9:49 pm

For those interested in these ideas, you might wish to check out this event:

CTCTG 5th Anniversary Force-on-Force Gunfighting Event WACO May 17, 2014
posting.php?mode=post&f=8


During the first portion, I will be covering the material from the presentation AND guiding you through the drills so that you can internalize the method and prove to yourself that it works.

Avoiding Criminal Attacks and Knife Defense with Herb Martin. This course will consist of two parts.

The first "Avoiding Criminal Assaults" will give you the knowledge and skills to defuse 85% of criminal assaults BEFORE they happen. Sometimes being alert isn't enough. Students will learn a simple and effective standardized procedure for what to do AFTER they have been chosen as a victim but BEFORE the attack actually happens.

The second part, "Knife Defense: Connectivity and Disarms", students will learn to significantly improve their ability to respond effectively to sudden knife attack and be introduced to the Austin Combatives Method of knife defense. This class is appropriate for all skill and ability levels.


If you don't like *MY* classes then check out the announcement page and find one of the others that does suit you.
HerbM

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