Re: Notify a business owner of unenforceable signs?
Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2015 1:34 pm
by Javier730
kiddkop wrote:I also think it is ridiculous for someone to tell others what they should or should not do.
Kiddkop wrote:Yes, it is the RIGHT thing to do!
Was your own response to whether we should inform business owners of their unenforceable signs ridiculous or is it only ridiculous when your not the person telling others what they should or should not do because its right or wrong?
If you think its ridiculous to tell other what they should or should not do, you should not write comments saying what people should do because YOU think its the right thing to do.
Also, if you say its ridiculous for someone other than you to to tell other what they should or should not do, you must be trolling.
Either your comment was ridiculous or your a troll.
Re: Notify a business owner of unenforceable signs?
Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2015 1:34 pm
by Paragrouper
It is the business's responsibility to post correct signage. My responsibility is to abide by the signage they post-if it applies to me.
Re: Notify a business owner of unenforceable signs?
Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2015 1:43 pm
by Abraham
Kiddkop,
I see you pretend you don't understand what many have taken the time to educate you regarding signage and carrying.
I don't believe for an instant you don't understand.
You're apparently here to be a controversial contrarian for it's own sake.
You've been made.
Buh-bye!
Re: Notify a business owner of unenforceable signs?
Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2015 1:55 pm
by mojo84
Two things come to mind.
straw man
noun
: a weak or imaginary argument or opponent that is set up to be easily defeated
Full Definition
1 :a weak or imaginary opposition (as an argument or adversary) set up only to be easily confuted
I could not get the YouTube video to embed without getting an error.
Re: Notify a business owner of unenforceable signs?
Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2015 1:57 pm
by treadlightly
The State of Texas is cool with my armed peregrinations just about everywhere I go and no bad things happen as a result. On that basis, I'd say it's arguable that "no mayhem" plus "Texas says I can" equals "no problem."
I'll omit mentioning the basic human rights guaranteed in the Constitution say I can, too, because I've watched MSNBC and CNN. Only kooks think the Constitution means anything. (Unfortunately, I seem to be a kook....)
There is also some personal high ground I'd like to claim regarding intent not to commit crimes, but that's the same high ground everyone here stands on, too.
Come September (or January, I forget which), the State of Texas will slap its own wrist for improperly blocking my armed access to public buildings.
All of which gives me evidence I'm not a threat - but if I see I'm not welcome on private property, I'm not going to impose myself where I'm not wanted. I don't view a noncompliant sign as much of a roadblock, though. It is not too much to ask for a business to conform to State law.
But the thing that remains a curiosity to me is how few people those signs address. In my limited experience, a business owner puts up the sign believing he's made a far-reaching stand for public safety without considering it only affects CHL holders and there really aren't that many of us, and all of us don't carry all the time, anyway. Almost everybody was already blocked from entering with handguns.
Re: Notify a business owner of unenforceable signs?
Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2015 2:05 pm
by Pawpaw
Kiddkop wrote:I have only had this opinion for 48 hours. Definitely not long enough to get upset with someone that disagrees with me.
And yet you can be so self-righteous that your 48-hour-old opinion must be correct because it has been more thoroughly reasoned out than those of others who have been reasoned out with several years of experience.
Re: Notify a business owner of unenforceable signs?
Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2015 2:10 pm
by Taypo
treadlightly wrote:The State of Texas is cool with my armed peregrinations just about everywhere I go and no bad things happen as a result. On that basis, I'd say it's arguable that "no mayhem" plus "Texas says I can" equals "no problem."
I'll omit mentioning the basic human rights guaranteed in the Constitution say I can, too, because I've watched MSNBC and CNN. Only kooks think the Constitution means anything. (Unfortunately, I seem to be a kook....)
There is also some personal high ground I'd like to claim regarding intent not to commit crimes, but that's the same high ground everyone here stands on, too.
Come September (or January, I forget which), the State of Texas will slap its own wrist for improperly blocking my armed access to public buildings.
All of which gives me evidence I'm not a threat - but if I see I'm not welcome on private property, I'm not going to impose myself where I'm not wanted. I don't view a noncompliant sign as much of a roadblock, though. It is not too much to ask for a business to conform to State law.
But the thing that remains a curiosity to me is how few people those signs address. In my limited experience, a business owner puts up the sign believing he's made a far-reaching stand for public safety without considering it only affects CHL holders and there really aren't that many of us, and all of us don't carry all the time, anyway. Almost everybody was already blocked from entering with handguns.
...and I also had to look up "peregrinations".
Re: Notify a business owner of unenforceable signs?
Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2015 2:31 pm
by rtschl
Kiddkop wrote:
I at 1st thought....nah, no need to say anything, but after reading some post and forming an opinion on something that I previously did not have an opinion I decided that the right thing to do is to discern the intent of business. This will allow them to
A) remove the sign
B) correct the sign
C) do nothing
Each of these serve a purpose for me based on my newly formed opinion. I can,
A) continue to carry and do business
B) not carry if I choose to do business
C) continue to carry and do business
I don't see a negative to notifying.
The negative is:
B) No CHL can carry because YOU decided to inform the business and they posted compliant 30.06 signage. Your action does not impact you only. It bans EVERY CHL from carrying in that business - because of YOUR actions.
Please feel free to honor gunbuster signs and not carry. I have no problem with that if you do, because it does not keep me or others from carrying. But why push to remove it for EVERYONE else? That is what so many of us here do not understand. OCT and Anti's we expect this from, but not from fellow CHL's.
Re: Notify a business owner of unenforceable signs?
Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2015 2:35 pm
by Kiddkop
Javier730 wrote:
kiddkop wrote:I also think it is ridiculous for someone to tell others what they should or should not do.
Kiddkop wrote:Yes, it is the RIGHT thing to do!
Was your own response to whether we should inform business owners of their unenforceable signs ridiculous or is it only ridiculous when your not the person telling others what they should or should not do because its right or wrong?
If you think its ridiculous to tell other what they should or should not do, you should not write comments saying what people should do because YOU think its the right thing to do.
Also, if you say its ridiculous for someone other than you to to tell other what they should or should not do, you must be trolling.
Nice try....
I never said I would tell a property owner what to do. I said I believe that the correct thing to do is advise them their sign is not correct
Anybody that has a different opinion is obviously a troll!
Either your comment was ridiculous or your a troll.
Re: Notify a business owner of unenforceable signs?
Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2015 2:39 pm
by Kiddkop
Pawpaw wrote:
Kiddkop wrote:I have only had this opinion for 48 hours. Definitely not long enough to get upset with someone that disagrees with me.
And yet you can be so self-righteous that your 48-hour-old opinion must be correct because it has been more thoroughly reasoned out than those of others who have been reasoned out with several years of experience.
I didn't say it was correct for you. It is mine based on limited knowledge with do evidence provided by anyone with a differing opinion that it is incorrect. Unless you believe that by advising a business owner somehow threatens your safety
Re: Notify a business owner of unenforceable signs?
Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2015 2:47 pm
by lildave40
Okay, I have a question as a new CHL Holder for only a few months now. So forgive me if I am incorrect and looking for further education on this forum. I posted earlier how a store had the incorrect sign. " I know and I am sorry I thought I was doing the right thing. When I posted it I was thinking the same way as kidcop was thinking. To notify the store about their error and share it with others. After I posted it on the forum I saw the other side of the coin. That by telling the store they need to either take it down or correct it that I am ruining it for other chlers. But the question I have does it really matter? Yesterday a movie theater is now checking bags. 1/1/2016 is just around the corner. How many stores will legally post 30.06 30.07 signs? I became a chl holder because I was looking down a barrel when it fired. "Luckily the thug didnt have it chambered" I want to carry in the right form at all locations I go.
Again, I am on the learning curve so just asking questions, please dont get mad.
Re: Notify a business owner of unenforceable signs?
Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2015 2:50 pm
by Javier730
kiddkop wrote:Nice try....
I never said I would tell a property owner what to do. I said I believe that the correct thing to do is advise them their sign is not correct
This was your first response to the ops question.
kiddkop wrote:Yes, it is the RIGHT thing to do!
You never mentioned advising.
Re: Notify a business owner of unenforceable signs?
Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2015 3:00 pm
by mojo84
Lildave, it really isn't a matter of a business needing to take down a nonenforceable sign. The deal is, if a business really wants to prohibit concealed or, in the future opan carry, they need to comply with the law and notify people in the proper way. If it isn't a big enough issue to them to post the proper sign, then it isn't incumbent upon us, morally, legally or ethically to question their choice of sign to make sure the sign satisfies their intentions and desires.
The trouble comes when someone forces the sign issue and the business owner has an ah moment and decides to post the correct signage that law abiding carriers will have to obey. The fallacy is, the criminals will not obey any sign while the good guys, us, will obey legal signs.
There is a difference in signage laws between privately owned property and those owned/leased by a state or local government.
Re: Notify a business owner of unenforceable signs?
Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2015 3:01 pm
by rtschl
Lildave40,
Appreciate the willingness to hear the other side. I too have looked down the barrel of a gun and it is not something you soon forget.
I'm assuming the law change for 1/1/2016 I think you are referring to only applies to government (state, county, city etc.). They can face fines for posting public property, but only after certain steps of notification are taken to give them a chance to take it down. That does not apply to private property. They can post anything anytime they want. The only enforceable sign a private property can post for a CHL holder is 30.06 and for OC is 30.07.
It does no one any good to notify a business that their sign does not apply to CHL holders. Most importantly It does no one any harm by NOT notifying a business.
Re: Notify a business owner of unenforceable signs?
Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2015 3:29 pm
by lildave40
rtschl wrote:Lildave40,
Appreciate the willingness to hear the other side. I too have looked down the barrel of a gun and it is not something you soon forget.
I'm assuming the law change for 1/1/2016 I think you are referring to only applies to government (state, county, city etc.). They can face fines for posting public property, but only after certain steps of notification are taken to give them a chance to take it down. That does not apply to private property. They can post anything anytime they want. The only enforceable sign a private property can post for a CHL holder is 30.06 and for OC is 30.07.
It does no one any good to notify a business that their sign does not apply to CHL holders. Most importantly It does no one any harm by NOT notifying a business.
