Are the new 30.06 signs valid now, or not until 2016?

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Glockster
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Re: Are the new 30.06 signs valid now, or not until 2016?

#16

Post by Glockster » Wed Dec 23, 2015 4:58 am

Skiprr wrote:From those of us who have been around this environment for one or two decades--not months--trust me, the very same conversation comes up every time there is a legislative change.

The law is the law. An invalid posting is an invalid posting. Now, I'm not one to pull out a ruler and try to confirm letters on signage are at least one-inch and not 63/64ths. But I also don't concern myself with outdated 30.05 or "gunbuster" signs. And won't with outdated 30.06 signage come January.

Admittedly, OC is a different animal because it's all out there. I plan to OC very seldom, and perhaps only while at PSC. But the OP was about CC, and Charles gave him the definitive statement.
At the risk of not wanting to hijack the thread, interesting to know from a historical perspective! In the two years that I've been here this is my first go 'round. Have there been a lot of changes to the signage since the law got onto the books laying out the specific requirements?
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Re: Are the new 30.06 signs valid now, or not until 2016?

#17

Post by Abraham » Wed Dec 23, 2015 11:42 am

"Why should Texas be different?"

Because it's Texas, not some other state.

Texas doesn't follow in lockstep with other states and their particular laws.

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Re: Are the new 30.06 signs valid now, or not until 2016?

#18

Post by ScottDLS » Wed Dec 23, 2015 12:56 pm

Glockster wrote:
Skiprr wrote:From those of us who have been around this environment for one or two decades--not months--trust me, the very same conversation comes up every time there is a legislative change.

The law is the law. An invalid posting is an invalid posting. Now, I'm not one to pull out a ruler and try to confirm letters on signage are at least one-inch and not 63/64ths. But I also don't concern myself with outdated 30.05 or "gunbuster" signs. And won't with outdated 30.06 signage come January.

Admittedly, OC is a different animal because it's all out there. I plan to OC very seldom, and perhaps only while at PSC. But the OP was about CC, and Charles gave him the definitive statement.
At the risk of not wanting to hijack the thread, interesting to know from a historical perspective! In the two years that I've been here this is my first go 'round. Have there been a lot of changes to the signage since the law got onto the books laying out the specific requirements?
The signage requirements for 30.06 have been the same since 1997. With the addition of PC 30.07 and Open Carry this year, some relatively minor changes were made to the sign language for 30.06, nevertheless they are required for a sign to be valid after 1/1/2016.
4/13/1996 Completed CHL Class, 4/16/1996 Fingerprints, Affidavits, and Application Mailed, 10/4/1996 Received CHL, renewed 1998, 2002, 2006, 2011, 2016...). "ATF... Uhhh...heh...heh....Alcohol, tobacco, and GUNS!! Cool!!!!"


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Re: Are the new 30.06 signs valid now, or not until 2016?

#19

Post by Ruark » Wed Dec 23, 2015 1:03 pm

What's going to happen to the texas3006.com site after 1/1, with regard to 30.06 signs? I'm thinking particularly of the "Valid?" column. Remember, all that data is for the "old" 30.06. Will they change all of them to "No" until updates are submitted? Erase the entire 30.06 database and start over? 99% of those entries will be invalid 8 days from now.
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Re: Are the new 30.06 signs valid now, or not until 2016?

#20

Post by NotRPB » Wed Dec 23, 2015 2:13 pm

Went to a clinic today which last week had 1 valid until Jan 1st 2016 - 30.06 sign at one entrance only on Glass. (So I have previously just carried my concealed rifle)

They had removed that, placed the valid/compliant after Jan 1st 2016 30.06 and 30.07 signs at both entrances in both languages.
I had already put my pistol in the car when I noticed the change ... (So I just carried my concealed rifle)

(So actually right now, a licensee could concealed carry a handgun there until Jan 1st 2016, but I didn't...I just carried my concealed rifle ... as always)

I updated Texas3006.com with the change


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Re: Are the new 30.06 signs valid now, or not until 2016?

#21

Post by amtank » Wed Dec 23, 2015 7:33 pm

Texas Occupational Code Sec. 2155.102 and Sec. 2155.103 are instructive to this issue. I have never seen that in any Texas located hotel information.

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Re: Are the new 30.06 signs valid now, or not until 2016?

#22

Post by Oldgringo » Wed Dec 23, 2015 10:45 pm

New 30.06 signs? :headscratch Where does one go to see the new 30.06 and the new 30.07 signs - or is it a secret?

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Re: Are the new 30.06 signs valid now, or not until 2016?

#23

Post by Skiprr » Wed Dec 23, 2015 10:45 pm

Glockster wrote:
Skiprr wrote:From those of us who have been around this environment for one or two decades--not months--trust me, the very same conversation comes up every time there is a legislative change.

The law is the law. An invalid posting is an invalid posting. Now, I'm not one to pull out a ruler and try to confirm letters on signage are at least one-inch and not 63/64ths. But I also don't concern myself with outdated 30.05 or "gunbuster" signs. And won't with outdated 30.06 signage come January.

Admittedly, OC is a different animal because it's all out there. I plan to OC very seldom, and perhaps only while at PSC. But the OP was about CC, and Charles gave him the definitive statement.
At the risk of not wanting to hijack the thread, interesting to know from a historical perspective! In the two years that I've been here this is my first go 'round. Have there been a lot of changes to the signage since the law got onto the books laying out the specific requirements?
By "the very same conversation" I did not specifically refer to signage, but to legislative change in general. The point was, the law is the law.

To my knowledge--though don't ding me if I'm wrong; I haven't done the research--there have been alterations to firearms laws, and other legislation affecting them, in almost every legislative session since 1995. Yet every year we see a new Topic started about consumption of alcohol while carrying. Every year we see a new Topic about carrying past a no-Beretta-symbol gun-buster sign. Every year we see conversations about church or hospital carry.

Mind you, questions and discourse are great; that's how we learn; that's much of why we're here. And until an AG opinion or case history precedent is established, some legislative language may be open to levels of interpretation.

But the wording of the signage requirements in 30.06 and 30.07 are specific, and Charles reinforced that. Someone can choose not to pass beyond an old 30.05 notice or an invalid 30.06 sign, and that's fine. Completely a personal preference. But that is a choice not required by law.
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Glockster
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Re: Are the new 30.06 signs valid now, or not until 2016?

#24

Post by Glockster » Thu Dec 24, 2015 8:53 am

Skiprr wrote:
Glockster wrote:
Skiprr wrote:From those of us who have been around this environment for one or two decades--not months--trust me, the very same conversation comes up every time there is a legislative change.

The law is the law. An invalid posting is an invalid posting. Now, I'm not one to pull out a ruler and try to confirm letters on signage are at least one-inch and not 63/64ths. But I also don't concern myself with outdated 30.05 or "gunbuster" signs. And won't with outdated 30.06 signage come January.

Admittedly, OC is a different animal because it's all out there. I plan to OC very seldom, and perhaps only while at PSC. But the OP was about CC, and Charles gave him the definitive statement.
At the risk of not wanting to hijack the thread, interesting to know from a historical perspective! In the two years that I've been here this is my first go 'round. Have there been a lot of changes to the signage since the law got onto the books laying out the specific requirements?
By "the very same conversation" I did not specifically refer to signage, but to legislative change in general. The point was, the law is the law.

To my knowledge--though don't ding me if I'm wrong; I haven't done the research--there have been alterations to firearms laws, and other legislation affecting them, in almost every legislative session since 1995. Yet every year we see a new Topic started about consumption of alcohol while carrying. Every year we see a new Topic about carrying past a no-Beretta-symbol gun-buster sign. Every year we see conversations about church or hospital carry.

Mind you, questions and discourse are great; that's how we learn; that's much of why we're here. And until an AG opinion or case history precedent is established, some legislative language may be open to levels of interpretation.

But the wording of the signage requirements in 30.06 and 30.07 are specific, and Charles reinforced that. Someone can choose not to pass beyond an old 30.05 notice or an invalid 30.06 sign, and that's fine. Completely a personal preference. But that is a choice not required by law.
Sure, I get that the signage requirements are specific, and I have no interest in passing anything that is any kind of an indication that they don't want firearms past that point so I could care less if the sign might technically be invalid, I respect the intent of their having posted a sign. I was only curious as someone who hasn't been here long enough to have seen other changes to know how many times or how frequently you've gone through those changes. Thanks!
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Re: Are the new 30.06 signs valid now, or not until 2016?

#25

Post by Russell » Thu Dec 24, 2015 12:08 pm

Ruark wrote:What's going to happen to the texas3006.com site after 1/1, with regard to 30.06 signs? I'm thinking particularly of the "Valid?" column. Remember, all that data is for the "old" 30.06. Will they change all of them to "No" until updates are submitted? Erase the entire 30.06 database and start over? 99% of those entries will be invalid 8 days from now.

My initial thought is to leave the entries as is and leave them marked as valid. There's so much data there I would hate for it to no longer be available.

The language changes are so minute, that frankly until I see a more authoritative opinion that LTC holders will not be charged for carrying past an old 30.06 sign I would not trust the signs to be 100% invalid and an LTC holder to not be arrested and charged.
http://www.texas3006.com - Texas 30.06 and 30.07 Signage Database.
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Re: Are the new 30.06 signs valid now, or not until 2016?

#26

Post by Mike1951 » Thu Dec 24, 2015 1:06 pm

Russell,

Will there be a way to track those who post 30.06 in conjunction with 30.07 that had not previously posted 30.06?
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Re: Are the new 30.06 signs valid now, or not until 2016?

#27

Post by Russell » Thu Dec 24, 2015 6:38 pm

Mike1951 wrote:Russell,

Will there be a way to track those who post 30.06 in conjunction with 30.07 that had not previously posted 30.06?
We don't track businesses that don't have signs. So if you get a new entry that's marked 30.06 and 30.07, there's a good chance it's new.
http://www.texas3006.com - Texas 30.06 and 30.07 Signage Database.
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Re: Are the new 30.06 signs valid now, or not until 2016?

#28

Post by Mike1951 » Thu Dec 24, 2015 7:05 pm

I was thinking more of a way to determine months or a year from now, how many new postings were probably caused by open carry.

Do you record the date of their initial report?
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Re: Are the new 30.06 signs valid now, or not until 2016?

#29

Post by Russell » Thu Dec 24, 2015 7:12 pm

Mike1951 wrote:I was thinking more of a way to determine months or a year from now, how many new postings were probably caused by open carry.

Do you record the date of their initial report?

Yes. The date is available on every entry.
http://www.texas3006.com - Texas 30.06 and 30.07 Signage Database.
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Mike1951
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Re: Are the new 30.06 signs valid now, or not until 2016?

#30

Post by Mike1951 » Thu Dec 24, 2015 7:18 pm

Since there is no function to search by date, would it be possible to add sort by date?
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