How to deal effectively with businesses with 30.06 signs

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thetexan
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How to deal effectively with businesses with 30.06 signs

#1

Post by thetexan » Tue Jan 05, 2016 11:30 am

I've been giving this a lot of thought. How to make our opinions known to businesses who wish to post signs.

Most people state they will take their business elsewhere. Which is good. Each of us might choose to take out drop in the bucket and go somewhere else. The problem is that the action is just that, a drop in the bucket. And if you take the trouble to write a letter then your letter is just one letter. Big deal, at least in the eyes of the business.

The business owner usually posts a sign for either personal ideology or he falsely believes that he is acting according to the desires of all of his patrons. Almost certainly he has no idea what his patrons believe, and if he does it is most probably one or two patrons.

The solution seems obvious. Every time we see a business with a sign the business needs to see all of our drops in the bucket, COLLECTIVELY. So how to do that.

Here is one solution. The logistics shouldn't be too difficult and conceptually it should be relatively easy.

1. In each locality someone (and I don't know how to go about this, minor detail) needs to write a letter to the business that has been endorsed by the hundreds or thousands of license holders expressing how, because of the inability to defend themselves, they feel that the business creates an unsafe environment for their patrons. And, that because of that, they feel they do not feel safel patronizing their establishment.

2. The business needs to feel, COLLECTIVELY, the weight of the many drops in the bucket to feel the seriousness of their decision, and the only way to do that is to hear from the many drops collectively.

3. So we should create a professional, polite, concerned letter and have a easy mechanism to attach the many endorsements to that letter. With internet technology, server databases, etc. this would be relatively simple. One way of doing this would be to create a web page (simple) with individual pages for each business with signs. The members of the website can endorse an open letter to the business which would be sent via email to the business at the completion of the endorsement process. With hundreds of endorsements this would be eye opening for the business.

Receiving a letter from several hundred person's expressing their concerns, (along with the knowledge that with each signatory there will be numerous other persons incidentally attached to that such as family and close friends,) will be a sobering reality check to a decision to post.

4. Once it has been decided to send a letter, a letter can be drafted and displayed online to the writers of the letter. The signatories can attach their names and the letter physically delivered to the business. Online transmittal may be a more efficient way. The problem is that we don't want the business to believe that a letter with 500 names was somehow contrived so the process would have to ensure authenticity in the eyes of the receiver.

We used to do this same sort of thing in the broadcasting business. Collective action is always more effective than individual action, and always taken more seriously.

Please give me your comments or ideas.

tex
Last edited by thetexan on Tue Jan 05, 2016 1:07 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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zero4o3
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Re: How to deal effectively with businesses with signs

#2

Post by zero4o3 » Tue Jan 05, 2016 11:37 am

Tex I like the idea and was thinking something similar recently. the only thing I would do differently is instead of one letter with 200 signatures I think 200 letters would have a bigger impact.

Maybe we can come up with some well worded templates for comments (the key is to be respectful) and bombard companies with feedback.

this next part may not be well received but I would also suggest tackling the 30.06 signs first


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Re: How to deal effectively with businesses with signs

#3

Post by thetexan » Tue Jan 05, 2016 11:52 am

zero4o3 wrote:Tex I like the idea and was thinking something similar recently. the only thing I would do differently is instead of one letter with 200 signatures I think 200 letters would have a bigger impact.

Maybe we can come up with some well worded templates for comments (the key is to be respectful) and bombard companies with feedback.

this next part may not be well received but I would also suggest tackling the 30.06 signs first
Great idea. To make it simple there would be a single letter that anyone can download from as a pdf from a server which is addressed to the right person at a business. Then each person sends off the letter from his email.

There's just one problem. This is nothing more than each individual leaving a card at a business. It depends, passively, that there will be hoards of CHLers who will eventually send in their individual letter. Now we are back at the same place. Folks are more likely to work together than separately. But there must be a solution.

It needs to be collective. A single letter, or a single mass mailings at the same time, and we need to ensure that the masses send it in. For example, I would not send it if I could only generate 5 signatures. We might not send it unless we can get 200 sigs. Any thing less just emphasizes that the effort of rag tag and not respectable.

tex
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Re: How to deal effectively with businesses with signs

#4

Post by zero4o3 » Tue Jan 05, 2016 11:58 am

thetexan wrote:
zero4o3 wrote:Tex I like the idea and was thinking something similar recently. the only thing I would do differently is instead of one letter with 200 signatures I think 200 letters would have a bigger impact.

Maybe we can come up with some well worded templates for comments (the key is to be respectful) and bombard companies with feedback.

this next part may not be well received but I would also suggest tackling the 30.06 signs first
Great idea. To make it simple there would be a single letter that anyone can download from as a pdf from a server which is addressed to the right person at a business. Then each person sends off the letter from his email.

There's just one problem. This is nothing more than each individual leaving a card at a business. It depends, passively, that there will be hoards of CHLers who will eventually send in their individual letter. Now we are back at the same place. Folks are more likely to work together than separately. But there must be a solution.

It needs to be collective. A single letter, or a single mass mailings at the same time, and we need to ensure that the masses send it in. For example, I would not send it if I could only generate 5 signatures. We might not send it unless we can get 200 sigs. Any thing less just emphasizes that the effort of rag tag and not respectable.

tex
so I think we identify a group of people who will take the time to send the email first get even 50+ people and then work out how to communicate the company name. Maybe a post in a forum thread or a new topic per business.

Those people need to have the same agenda though or at least similar.


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Re: How to deal effectively with businesses with signs

#5

Post by Tracker » Tue Jan 05, 2016 12:20 pm

This exactly the weapon (community activism) that groups like MDA is using to pressure businesses to put the signs up in the first place. Letters need to be personalized simply because it takes more effort on the part of the sender to think out his/her thoughts. They are taken more seriously by the receiver.

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Re: How to deal effectively with businesses with signs

#6

Post by Charles L. Cotton » Tue Jan 05, 2016 12:30 pm

I have two questions and one observation.

Q: The subject line is vague. Are you talking about §30.06 signs, §30.07 signs, or both?
Q: Are you suggesting that the Forum be the website for this information?

If I were a business owner who receive these letters, I'd look to my income statement to see if I was losing business. That would determine my response.
Chas.


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Re: How to deal effectively with businesses with signs

#7

Post by thetexan » Tue Jan 05, 2016 12:48 pm

Charles L. Cotton wrote:I have two questions and one observation.

Q: The subject line is vague. Are you talking about §30.06 signs, §30.07 signs, or both?
Q: Are you suggesting that the Forum be the website for this information?

If I were a business owner who receive these letters, I'd look to my income statement to see if I was losing business. That would determine my response.
Chas.
Either sign. And no not this site. I was merely suggesting that some sort of web site or technology could be used effectively to facilitate the process of having individuals send letters individually or collectively. For example as the repository for the downloadable letter or collections of member names who wish too participate etc.

As to individually or collectively, there are arguments both ways. The deciding factor is what means the most to an owner. To figure that out ask yourself how you would like to be notified. If you kept your yard in a mess and the neighborhood wanted to work together to get you to change what would take more seriously. A bunch of letters from individuals expressing their displeasure and threatening to take you to the city council or a single letter signed by all of you letters expressing their collective displeasure and collectively, as a group, threatening to take you to the city council? Each individual threat is just that, an individual working alone making threats. The individual may be serious, but do YOU take him seriously. If you get 40 of these letters do you then begin to take notice? If you receive one BIG letter, does that get your attention?

I'm being rehetorical here. Although my past experience tells me collective. Individual letters would be great if you could ensure that large numbers would commit to doing it.

Here is an example, just an example of a letter...

John Smith, owner
Cajun’s Catch Grill
2016 Piermont Rd
Anyplace, Texas, 76442

Dear Sir,

Recently I had the opportunity and looked forward eating in your restaurant. As I began to enter your establishment I observed your display of a 30.06 and 30.07 sign near the entrance. I have received training for, and am the possessor of a Texas License to Carry Handgun permit. To receive this permit I have passed an extensive FBI background investigation. It is important to me to be able to provide protection for myself and my family so I choose to avail myself of the right to carry my handgun.

I am disappointed that you have decided to restrict those of us who have submitted ourselves to the investigations of the State and Federal authorities, and who have been trained, from being armed while patronizing your establishment. The disappointment is only minor in contrast to the real effect of your decision.

By posting your signage, and thus prohibiting law abiding, trained, investigated, vetted and armed citizens from enjoying your place of business, you have effectively created a clearly marked target for lawless criminals should they decide to act violently against you and your patrons. It’s not so much that the armed citizens who would otherwise be present might deter or stop an attack, as it is that you have publicly announced to any lawless criminal or terrorist that your patrons inside are incapable of defending themselves against a violent armed attack.

This makes your establishment unsafe for me and my family. So, with respect, I want you to know that, with regret and as long as you continue to prohibit legally armed customers, I will no longer patronize your restaurant because I feel much more vulnerable from the threat of the violent criminals who will, in any case, disregard your signage than I do from other law abiding, trained, investigated, vetted and licensed gun owners who, were it not for your prohibition, might otherwise be present.

With respect,

Bill Thompson
4366 Broadway
Anyplace, Texas 76445


These are just ideas but we have a tremendous resource of citizenry that can effect change in our communities as well as educate. I can see having letters for two or three categories of businesses.

tex
Last edited by thetexan on Tue Jan 05, 2016 12:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: How to deal effectively with businesses with signs

#8

Post by Charles L. Cotton » Tue Jan 05, 2016 12:57 pm

thetexan wrote:
Charles L. Cotton wrote:I have two questions and one observation.

Q: The subject line is vague. Are you talking about §30.06 signs, §30.07 signs, or both?
Q: Are you suggesting that the Forum be the website for this information?

If I were a business owner who receive these letters, I'd look to my income statement to see if I was losing business. That would determine my response.
Chas.
Either sign. And no not this site. I was merely suggesting that some sort of web site or technology could be used effectively to facilitate the process of having individuals send letters individually or collectively. For example as the repository for the downloadable letter or collections of member names who wish too participate etc.
Then I think your effort will be a waste of time because most gun owners aren't adverse to a company posting a §30.07 sign. Look at the results of my poll here on the Forum were over 90% said they will still eat at Whataburger in spite of their open-carry prohibition. If you were to limit it to businesses posting §30.06 signs, you would have a much larger percentage of LTCs willing to participate.

I have no idea if Russell would be interested, but if http://www.texas3006.com would add a feature to automatically send a canned email to a business when it is listed on the website, that might be a good way to notify them that their gun ban is being seen by many thousands of LTCs in Texas. The automated email could contain information about our track record, eligibility requirements, etc. This would require the person posting the location to include a valid email so Russell wouldn't have to find them and enter the data.

Chas.


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Re: How to deal effectively with businesses with signs

#9

Post by thetexan » Tue Jan 05, 2016 1:05 pm

Charles L. Cotton wrote:
thetexan wrote:
Charles L. Cotton wrote:I have two questions and one observation.

Q: The subject line is vague. Are you talking about §30.06 signs, §30.07 signs, or both?
Q: Are you suggesting that the Forum be the website for this information?

If I were a business owner who receive these letters, I'd look to my income statement to see if I was losing business. That would determine my response.
Chas.
Either sign. And no not this site. I was merely suggesting that some sort of web site or technology could be used effectively to facilitate the process of having individuals send letters individually or collectively. For example as the repository for the downloadable letter or collections of member names who wish too participate etc.
Then I think your effort will be a waste of time because most gun owners aren't adverse to a company posting a §30.07 sign. Look at the results of my poll here on the Forum were over 90% said they will still eat at Whataburger in spite of their open-carry prohibition. If you were to limit it to businesses posting §30.06 signs, you would have a much larger percentage of LTCs willing to participate.

I have no idea if Russell would be interested, but if http://www.texas3006.com would add a feature to automatically send a canned email to a business when it is listed on the website, that might be a good way to notify them that their gun ban is being seen by many thousands of LTCs in Texas. The automated email could contain information about our track record, eligibility requirements, etc. This would require the person posting the location to include a valid email so Russell wouldn't have to find them and enter the data.

Chas.
Jerry Falwell got in a lot of hot water from his friends when he supported an abortion bill that allowed exceptions for rape and incest. His followers were horrified that he would accept that. His response what that he would rather do something and save 90% of the babies than stand dogmatically firm and accomplish nothing.

I didn't think about the 30.07 sign. Yes, the hill to fight on is the 30.06 sign for now and I agree.

tex
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Re: How to deal effectively with businesses with 30.06 signs

#10

Post by thetexan » Tue Jan 05, 2016 1:12 pm

But, I've got to wonder.

Surely I'm not the first one to think of this sort of thing. I hear about leaving cards. I don't want something that is just a glorified version of leaving a card. There needs to be a way to easily facilitate the masses to respond effectively. The key is "the masses".

Why hasn't something like this already been done, or has it?

tex
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Re: How to deal effectively with businesses with 30.06 signs

#11

Post by JALLEN » Tue Jan 05, 2016 1:17 pm

I wonder if listing on 30.06.com might become "Effective notice?"

One cannot access the site without registering. If you are registered, could it be claimed you had notice at least of the signs in the areas you requested notice of?
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Re: How to deal effectively with businesses with 30.06 signs

#12

Post by zero4o3 » Tue Jan 05, 2016 1:22 pm

thetexan wrote:But, I've got to wonder.

Surely I'm not the first one to think of this sort of thing. I hear about leaving cards. I don't want something that is just a glorified version of leaving a card. There needs to be a way to easily facilitate the masses to respond effectively. The key is "the masses".

Why hasn't something like this already been done, or has it?

tex
It likely has not been done because it has only been 5 days since the change and we are still waiting to see what happens. I will reiterate if you go down the road of organizing a group the key is to be respectful.


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Re: How to deal effectively with businesses with 30.06 signs

#13

Post by Russell » Tue Jan 05, 2016 1:25 pm

JALLEN wrote:I wonder if listing on 30.06.com might become "Effective notice?"

One cannot access the site without registering. If you are registered, could it be claimed you had notice at least of the signs in the areas you requested notice of?

You can see all entries and pictures without registering. Registration is only required for viewing additional comments and submitting new entries.

My initial thought is I would be hesitant to offer a feature for emailing businesses when they are posted unless the business owners themselves want it (in which case, they should already know they are posting a sign at their own business....). I don't want to ever be in the position where it comes off as being aggressive or harassing. It's one thing to send an individual message, but quite another to have it automated.
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Re: How to deal effectively with businesses with 30.06 signs

#14

Post by Charles L. Cotton » Tue Jan 05, 2016 1:26 pm

thetexan wrote:But, I've got to wonder. . . . Why hasn't something like this already been done, or has it?
This is pure speculation on my part, but experienced activists know that the only thing worse than not starting a grassroots campaign is starting one and having only a minuscule response. I'm reminded of the old Lone Star CDL group that called for an open-carry demonstration at the Capitol. Three people showed up and they couldn't find each other.

Chas.


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Re: How to deal effectively with businesses with 30.06 signs

#15

Post by thetexan » Tue Jan 05, 2016 1:28 pm

JALLEN wrote:I wonder if listing on 30.06.com might become "Effective notice?"

One cannot access the site without registering. If you are registered, could it be claimed you had notice at least of the signs in the areas you requested notice of?
That's a depressing thought. If I were a prosecutor I would certainly use that against someone claiming they had no idea the place was posted. Yeah, that would put each respondent on record.

Ok, how do you fix that? A 1000 people in Longview send a message to Appleby's. And all that might be accomplished is that those 1000 people are now on record as knowing about the notification. That's one advantage of autonomous cards. So autonomy might need to be a factor??? But now we're back to playing around the edges and ending up being ineffective.

tex
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