Posted but manager says ignore it?

[LDB415]

I'm doing a search but don't find anything yet. What are the thoughts on a business that is posted but the manager says ignore it and come in anyway. I realize the biggie is not patronizing any business that posts 30.06 but wondered if there are any special policies for such a situation.

[Kolamer]

I am not sure how the law would work with that and I am kind of curious myself now. At the very least I would get it in writing from the manager who is in control of the property.

[Teamless]

It would be my assumption, if someone with authority can deny you access with verbal, in would believe they could also allow with a verbal
IANAL and this is not legal advice

[mojo84]

Probably no big deal unless things go bad and the manager denies giving permission. What s in writing will probably prevail if the worst case scenario goes down.

[Mike S]

IANAL.

Both 30.06/30.07 makes it an offense to enter a property under the authority of your LTC without effective consent (when properly posted). The 'without effective consent ' part generally means that no one told you it was o.k. to enter, presumably because when CC'ing they wouldn't know you were carrying and therefore it wouldn't come up.

Effective consent may be given. If the manager gives you consent to enter (assuming the manager knows you are entering with your handgun), then I would believe no offense has occurred.

I did mention IANAL, didn't I?? I'm willing to bet someone smarter than me (and/or a lawyer) will correct me if I'm wrong.

[Mxrdad]

I wouldn't do it, its just not worth it. If indeed the worse happens and you have to use it do defend yourself and actually fire it, the legal end of it would be a nightmare. All it would take is 1 person that holds legal authority against you and the fight would then be on. And we all know defending yourself in court isnt cheap. And if that manager changes his story (maybe to keep his job), your really losing the only possible defense you have.

Risk doesnt equal the reward and of course, IANAL either, so this is absolutely just an opinion.

[goose]

Until it has been settled in court, your guess is about as good as anyone's. My leaning is towards the thought that once consent has been given, no offense has occurred. However, until that consent is in writing, that consent is only as good as your relationship with the manager.
Things that can affect your relationship with the manager:
Anytime --

• normal disagreements

After an un-holstering event --

• normal disagreements
  disagreement as to if it was justified
  pressure (on the manager) from a landlord
  pressure from their spouse
  pressure from their franchise owner
  pressure from the store owner
  rational/irrational fears about perceived pressures
  advice from a lawyer
  advice from a buddy
  advice from an LEO
  etc, etc, ad nauseum

[LDB415]

Thanks for all the good discussion so far. It's an Acura dealership so there are other options but unlike Ford/GM on every corner they are a bit of a hike. I'd have to get it in writing before considering it at all. Right now it's just "window" shopping with the window being an online window.

[C-dub]

I, too, was told by the manager at the Lewisville Nissan (Autonation) that they had no problem with people carrying as long as it remained concealed. They are properly posted with .06 and.07 signs. I will not carry past those signs even with the manager's approval in an e-mail. It was not his decision to post the signs and he claims to also have a CHL. Autonation has elected to post all of their dealerships in the area and perhaps the state. Therefore, despite the manager's "permission", I don't think it is up to him and would not risk it. I haven't been back there since January and have taken both my Nissans to the Grapevine Nissan that is not posted with either sign.

[The Annoyed Man]

I wouldn't do it unless I had it in writing. But beyond that, I wouldn't do it anyway, written permission or not.

"Your policy is to bar people like me from entering the store. Take down the sign, and maybe I'll buy a car. If not, there are Acura dealers in nearly every city that has car dealerships, and several in the metropolitan Houston area alone. I'm sure that one of them would be happy to take my money. That's my policy." Then start walking toward your car. If the sign comes down, turn around. If not, keep walking.

[nightmare69]

Would you bet this manager would save you from a ride to jail by telling the police he told you to ignore the sign? If you're willing to risk it....I wouldn't.

[Oldgringo]

The manager didn't put up the sign.

[cbunt1]

I historically haven't been willing to patronize a 30.06 business myself, but my opinion/position on it is this:

The law allows for an exemption to a posted 30.06 with permission from someone with "apparent authority."

Apparent Authority isn't clearly defined, but in layman's terms, if I believe this person has authority to give me a discount or free product from the business, then a reasonable person would also believe they have apparent authority to invite me inside.

An express invitation (in layman's terms) has a different connotation than simply wandering into the business.

Therefore, you're probably on solid legal ground, IMO.

Doesn't mean I'd be willing to do it necessarily, but my resistance at that point is on principle rather than legality.

This is just my opinion, it's subject to change as I mentally process new experiences in my life :)

Oh, and I'm not a lawyer, I don't play one on TV, and I didn't stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night. I will, however, frequently offer a free opinion that's worth exactly what you pay for it!

[mojo84]

I historically haven't been willing to patronize a 30.06 business myself, but my opinion/position on it is this:

The law allows for an exemption to a posted 30.06 with permission from someone with "apparent authority."

Apparent Authority isn't clearly defined, but in layman's terms, if I believe this person has authority to give me a discount or free product from the business, then a reasonable person would also believe they have apparent authority to invite me inside.

An express invitation (in layman's terms) has a different connotation than simply wandering into the business.

Therefore, you're probably on solid legal ground, IMO.

Doesn't mean I'd be willing to do it necessarily, but my resistance at that point is on principle rather than legality.

This is just my opinion, it's subject to change as I mentally process new experiences in my life :)

Oh, and I'm not a lawyer, I don't play one on TV, and I didn't stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night. I will, however, frequently offer a free opinion that's worth exactly what you pay for it!

Have you considered this scenario? The manager tells you you can carry in spite of the sign saying you can't. Something happens inside the store and you pull your gun to stop the threat but do not have to shoot. The police and the manager's supervisor are called to the scene and the supervisor brings up the issue that you illegally carried a gun in the store. Are you comfortable the manager will step up to defend you at the risk of his or her job?