30.06 on INSIDE doors

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thehemi
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30.06 on INSIDE doors

#1

Post by thehemi » Sun Feb 04, 2018 3:12 pm

Some stores/restaurants have a small breezeway between the outside doors and the inside doors. Are they allowed the post the 30.06 signs on the inside doors? I thought the intent of the large signage was so that you could see the signs without having to enter the establishment.


imkopaka
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Re: 30.06 on INSIDE doors

#2

Post by imkopaka » Sun Feb 04, 2018 3:20 pm

That was the goal of the law, but was never codified as such. As the law is written, a 30.06 sign must be displayed in a "conspicuous manner clearly visible to the public." Inside doors would qualify as long as they are public doors. Inside the store on a big billboard would technically qualify if everyone could easily see it.

30.07 is another story. The law states that those signs must be posted "in a conspicuous manner clearly visible to the public at each entrance to the property." Even so, the inner door is still part of the entrance, so in this case it would still count.

IANAL.
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carlson1
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Re: 30.06 on INSIDE doors

#3

Post by carlson1 » Sun Feb 04, 2018 4:31 pm

imkopaka wrote:...30.07 is another story. The law states that those signs must be posted "in a conspicuous manner clearly visible to the public at each entrance to the property." Even so, the inner door is still part of the entrance, so in this case it would still count.

IANAL.
I sure wished they would have added this to the 30.06 sign.
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imkopaka
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Re: 30.06 on INSIDE doors

#4

Post by imkopaka » Sun Feb 04, 2018 4:42 pm

:iagree:
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n5wmk
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Re: 30.06 on INSIDE doors

#5

Post by n5wmk » Mon Feb 05, 2018 11:16 am

Yeah, my doctor's office (not in a hospital or other medical facility) has recently posted 30.06 & 30.07 signs inside the waiting room, near the secure door that goes back to the exam rooms. They're not visible from outside, so conceivably the waiting room isn't off limits, but the back area is. And they're not all that visible anyway, since the signs are printed somewhat smaller than the required 1" letter height, but I'm not going to test their validity. I store my EDC in the lockbox in my truck when I go in, then re-dress when I get back outside.
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Soccerdad1995
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Re: 30.06 on INSIDE doors

#6

Post by Soccerdad1995 » Mon Feb 05, 2018 11:25 am

imkopaka wrote:That was the goal of the law, but was never codified as such. As the law is written, a 30.06 sign must be displayed in a "conspicuous manner clearly visible to the public." Inside doors would qualify as long as they are public doors. Inside the store on a big billboard would technically qualify if everyone could easily see it.

30.07 is another story. The law states that those signs must be posted "in a conspicuous manner clearly visible to the public at each entrance to the property." Even so, the inner door is still part of the entrance, so in this case it would still count.

IANAL.
"Property" is generally defined to include not just the building(s) but also any surrounding parking lots, and other land. So a 30.07 sign posted at the door to a building may not actually be posted at the entrance to the property, as required by the statute.

That said, it's a bit of a moot point since you may likely get verbal notice if you OC into such a building.
Ding dong, the witch is dead


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Re: 30.06 on INSIDE doors

#7

Post by Dreamer42 » Wed Feb 07, 2018 1:55 pm

Locations can tend to be inconsistent, at best. At a Plano restaurant I went into the 30-06 sign was on the left after I had to go through TWO sets of doors, and on the wall about 8 feet up. I almost didn't see it - and I was intentionally looking for such signage, too. :nono:


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Re: 30.06 on INSIDE doors

#8

Post by rotor » Wed Feb 07, 2018 3:12 pm

Although 07 needs to be at every entrance 06 needs to be at only one entrance. On the other hand, If the facility has multiple entrances and the one you use is not posted and you had no knowledge of an 06 posting than you have not been notified. I found this to be the case at a hospital that i frequented, I never used the main entrance and the one I used was not posted. That hospital has removed all 06/07 posting, probably one of the few that have.


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Re: 30.06 on INSIDE doors

#9

Post by crazy2medic » Wed Feb 07, 2018 3:47 pm

In my opinion the law should state the signage needs to be readily visible from the parking area for both 06 and 07, that way saves you from having to guess or walk back to your vehicle after finding they have posted!
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Flightmare
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Re: 30.06 on INSIDE doors

#10

Post by Flightmare » Wed Feb 07, 2018 5:30 pm

crazy2medic wrote:In my opinion the law should state the signage needs to be readily visible from the parking area for both 06 and 07, that way saves you from having to guess or walk back to your vehicle after finding they have posted!
On the exterior at each public entrance.
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Pritchical
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Re: 30.06 on INSIDE doors

#11

Post by Pritchical » Wed Feb 07, 2018 10:06 pm

Soccerdad1995 wrote:"Property" is generally defined to include not just the building(s) but also any surrounding parking lots, and other land. So a 30.07 sign posted at the door to a building may not actually be posted at the entrance to the property, as required by the statute.

That said, it's a bit of a moot point since you may likely get verbal notice if you OC into such a building.
Property /= premises, and premises is only the inside. Specifically worded NOT to include the parking lots, driveways, sidewalks and other land outside the offices. So a doctor's office cannot post the outside of the parking lot and legally keep you from carrying there.


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Re: 30.06 on INSIDE doors

#12

Post by Mike S » Wed Feb 07, 2018 10:57 pm

Pritchical wrote:
Soccerdad1995 wrote:"Property" is generally defined to include not just the building(s) but also any surrounding parking lots, and other land. So a 30.07 sign posted at the door to a building may not actually be posted at the entrance to the property, as required by the statute.

That said, it's a bit of a moot point since you may likely get verbal notice if you OC into such a building.
Property /= premises, and premises is only the inside. Specifically worded NOT to include the parking lots, driveways, sidewalks and other land outside the offices. So a doctor's office cannot post the outside of the parking lot and legally keep you from carrying there.
I would respectfully disagree. The language of 30.06/30.07 is "property", not "premises". As such, the entrance to the property could be posted, which would prohibit your entry with whichever mode of carry the signage references 'under the authority of the LTC'. However, this wouldn't prohibit your ability to enter the parking lot with a handgun in your vehicle under the MPA.


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Re: 30.06 on INSIDE doors

#13

Post by Soccerdad1995 » Thu Feb 08, 2018 2:33 pm

Mike S wrote:
Pritchical wrote:
Soccerdad1995 wrote:"Property" is generally defined to include not just the building(s) but also any surrounding parking lots, and other land. So a 30.07 sign posted at the door to a building may not actually be posted at the entrance to the property, as required by the statute.

That said, it's a bit of a moot point since you may likely get verbal notice if you OC into such a building.
Property /= premises, and premises is only the inside. Specifically worded NOT to include the parking lots, driveways, sidewalks and other land outside the offices. So a doctor's office cannot post the outside of the parking lot and legally keep you from carrying there.
I would respectfully disagree. The language of 30.06/30.07 is "property", not "premises". As such, the entrance to the property could be posted, which would prohibit your entry with whichever mode of carry the signage references 'under the authority of the LTC'. However, this wouldn't prohibit your ability to enter the parking lot with a handgun in your vehicle under the MPA.
I agree with Mike S. 30.07 uses "property", not premises. The prohibition covers the entire property, and the signage needs to be at every public entrance to the property, not the premises. So a 30.07 sign on a building would not be valid if the property also includes a parking lot. Of course, you will likely get verbal notice if you OC into such a building...

I also agree on the MPA exception as well as LEOSA and a host of others.
Ding dong, the witch is dead

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AJSully421
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Re: 30.06 on INSIDE doors

#14

Post by AJSully421 » Fri Feb 09, 2018 9:31 am

Step 1. Join Texas Defense Force Security- the only not for profit volunteer Security Company in the State of Texas.

Step 2. Get a Level 4 PPO (Body Guard) License.

Step 3. Have us sign your family on a gratis body guard contract.

Step 4. You are not subject to 30.06 if carrying concealed in plain clothes and you are with any member of your family listed on the contract. (You would be carrying under the authority of 1702 of the Occupations Code, not Government Code 411). This includes any place listed in 46.035 for the same reason.

Step 5. Stop worrying about the minutia of quite possibly the dumbest law in the State of Texas.
"The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant, it's just that they know so much that isn't so." - Ronald Reagan, 1964

30.06 signs only make criminals and terrorists safer.


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Re: 30.06 on INSIDE doors

#15

Post by Soccerdad1995 » Fri Feb 09, 2018 11:47 am

AJSully421 wrote:Step 1. Join Texas Defense Force Security- the only not for profit volunteer Security Company in the State of Texas.

Step 2. Get a Level 4 PPO (Body Guard) License.

Step 3. Have us sign your family on a gratis body guard contract.

Step 4. You are not subject to 30.06 if carrying concealed in plain clothes and you are with any member of your family listed on the contract. (You would be carrying under the authority of 1702 of the Occupations Code, not Government Code 411). This includes any place listed in 46.035 for the same reason.

Step 5. Stop worrying about the minutia of quite possibly the dumbest law in the State of Texas.
This is one of several exceptions to the 30.06 restrictions. You could also check the definition of a Volunteer Emergency Service Provider and see if you are already excepted, or if you can get there fairly easily.

Or you could get qualified as a LEO (LEOSA). That will probably be the most difficult option.

Or just start carrying a folding rifle in a "man purse" or computer bag instead of a handgun.

Personally, I wish we would just get rid of this whole dance and simply say that property owners can ask anyone they want to leave, for any reason (protected classes exempted). But you are not committing trespass unless you are told to leave. None of this bull about "you can come in, but only if you hop on one leg and twirl around 3 times", or "only if you are not wearing underwear", or "only if you are not carrying a handgun". Allowing property owners to set conditions upon the grant of entry makes sense, but those conditions should be limited to things that could potentially negatively impact the property owner, or at least to things they can actually see, IMHO.
Ding dong, the witch is dead

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